Narrative:

Due to increase of 4000 pounds over planned takeoff weight, we elected to make a bleeds off takeoff. Procedure calls for not reinstating bleeds until after clean up of aircraft (flaps and slats up, climb power). Ege is 6700 ft MSL, due to terrain climb out we do not even commence clean-up until 2700 ft AGL. This would mean not beginning clean-up until 9400 ft MSL. At that rate of climb we would have exceeded a 10000 ft cabin altitude and all warnings that come with it. At 1000 ft AGL I turned on the bleeds which locked out the high stage engine bleeds. We had to divert to denver and have them reset. In retrospect we should have taken off with APU supply to air-conditioning packs for pressurization. I have never used that procedure and would not have been comfortable with it. Our company should address bleeds off takeoffs at extremely high elevation with high clean-up altitudes. Company policy is to not clean up until 2700 ft because of terrain. Operation at ege airport is very critical and non-standard procedures should be clearly addressed by our company airport pages! Callback conversation with reporter revealed the following information: reporter first officer says that their company does have a procedure for heavy weight takeoffs with bleeds off and the APU furnishing air for air-conditioning and pressurization, but it requires paperwork on the release to authority/authorized it. In this case they didn't know it would be necessary to use the APU until after having taxied out. To preclude their problem with the bleed lockout, they should have contacted their company for revised release and/or received authority/authorized for APU/bleeds off takeoff. Though the procedure for turning on the bleeds after takeoff is after climb power is set, reporter says that he personally and knows of many other pilots who have turned the bleeds on prior to setting climb power and had not had the bleed lockout problem before. That, perhaps the bleed lockout tolerances were somewhat out of rig and causing their problem. According to the reporter, there is no note or anything in their manual that a bleed lockout could occur if turning the bleeds on prior to setting climb power. The flight crew diverted to den where a mechanic reset the lockout. Another air carrier has pratt and whitney engines and the mechanics said that on those, the bleed lockout can be reset in the air whereas the reporter's 757's have rolls royce engines and the bleed lockout must be reset on the ground. Reporter believes that there should at least be a note in their manual alerting the flcs to a possible high stage bleed lockout in similar sits.

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Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: AFTER TAKING OFF AT HIGH ALT ARPT WITH BLEEDS OFF, COMPANY PROC CALLS FOR CLEANING UP ACFT, SETTING CLB PWR AND THEN TURNING ON BLEEDS. BECAUSE OF THE HIGH ALT, THE ACFT WOULD BE CLBING THROUGH 10000 FT PRIOR TO TURNING ON THE BLEEDS, WHICH UNPRESSURIZED, WOULD CAUSE ACFT WARNINGS PLUS NOT IN ACCORDANCE WITH FARS. THUS, THE BLEEDS WERE TURNED ON PRIOR TO SETTING CLB PWR AND A BLEED LOCKOUT OCCURRED -- HIGH STAGE BLEEDS LOCKED OUT. ACFT DIVERTED AND THE LOCKOUT WAS RESET.

Narrative: DUE TO INCREASE OF 4000 LBS OVER PLANNED TKOF WT, WE ELECTED TO MAKE A BLEEDS OFF TKOF. PROC CALLS FOR NOT REINSTATING BLEEDS UNTIL AFTER CLEAN UP OF ACFT (FLAPS AND SLATS UP, CLB PWR). EGE IS 6700 FT MSL, DUE TO TERRAIN CLBOUT WE DO NOT EVEN COMMENCE CLEAN-UP UNTIL 2700 FT AGL. THIS WOULD MEAN NOT BEGINNING CLEAN-UP UNTIL 9400 FT MSL. AT THAT RATE OF CLB WE WOULD HAVE EXCEEDED A 10000 FT CABIN ALT AND ALL WARNINGS THAT COME WITH IT. AT 1000 FT AGL I TURNED ON THE BLEEDS WHICH LOCKED OUT THE HIGH STAGE ENG BLEEDS. WE HAD TO DIVERT TO DENVER AND HAVE THEM RESET. IN RETROSPECT WE SHOULD HAVE TAKEN OFF WITH APU SUPPLY TO AIR-CONDITIONING PACKS FOR PRESSURIZATION. I HAVE NEVER USED THAT PROC AND WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN COMFORTABLE WITH IT. OUR COMPANY SHOULD ADDRESS BLEEDS OFF TKOFS AT EXTREMELY HIGH ELEVATION WITH HIGH CLEAN-UP ALTS. COMPANY POLICY IS TO NOT CLEAN UP UNTIL 2700 FT BECAUSE OF TERRAIN. OP AT EGE ARPT IS VERY CRITICAL AND NON-STANDARD PROCS SHOULD BE CLRLY ADDRESSED BY OUR COMPANY ARPT PAGES! CALLBACK CONVERSATION WITH RPTR REVEALED THE FOLLOWING INFO: RPTR FO SAYS THAT THEIR COMPANY DOES HAVE A PROC FOR HVY WT TKOFS WITH BLEEDS OFF AND THE APU FURNISHING AIR FOR AIR-CONDITIONING AND PRESSURIZATION, BUT IT REQUIRES PAPERWORK ON THE RELEASE TO AUTH IT. IN THIS CASE THEY DIDN'T KNOW IT WOULD BE NECESSARY TO USE THE APU UNTIL AFTER HAVING TAXIED OUT. TO PRECLUDE THEIR PROB WITH THE BLEED LOCKOUT, THEY SHOULD HAVE CONTACTED THEIR COMPANY FOR REVISED RELEASE AND/OR RECEIVED AUTH FOR APU/BLEEDS OFF TKOF. THOUGH THE PROC FOR TURNING ON THE BLEEDS AFTER TKOF IS AFTER CLB PWR IS SET, RPTR SAYS THAT HE PERSONALLY AND KNOWS OF MANY OTHER PLTS WHO HAVE TURNED THE BLEEDS ON PRIOR TO SETTING CLB PWR AND HAD NOT HAD THE BLEED LOCKOUT PROB BEFORE. THAT, PERHAPS THE BLEED LOCKOUT TOLERANCES WERE SOMEWHAT OUT OF RIG AND CAUSING THEIR PROB. ACCORDING TO THE RPTR, THERE IS NO NOTE OR ANYTHING IN THEIR MANUAL THAT A BLEED LOCKOUT COULD OCCUR IF TURNING THE BLEEDS ON PRIOR TO SETTING CLB PWR. THE FLC DIVERTED TO DEN WHERE A MECH RESET THE LOCKOUT. ANOTHER ACR HAS PRATT AND WHITNEY ENGS AND THE MECHS SAID THAT ON THOSE, THE BLEED LOCKOUT CAN BE RESET IN THE AIR WHEREAS THE RPTR'S 757'S HAVE ROLLS ROYCE ENGS AND THE BLEED LOCKOUT MUST BE RESET ON THE GND. RPTR BELIEVES THAT THERE SHOULD AT LEAST BE A NOTE IN THEIR MANUAL ALERTING THE FLCS TO A POSSIBLE HIGH STAGE BLEED LOCKOUT IN SIMILAR SITS.

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.