|37000 Feet||Browse and search NASA's
Aviation Safety Reporting System
|Local Time Of Day||1201 To 1800|
|Locale Reference||airport : srb|
|Altitude||agl bound lower : 0|
agl bound upper : 0
|Operator||general aviation : personal|
|Make Model Name||PA-28 Cherokee/Archer II/Dakota/Pillan/Warrior|
|Operating Under FAR Part||Part 91|
|Flight Phase||climbout : takeoff|
ground other : taxi
|Function||instruction : instructor|
|Qualification||pilot : instrument|
pilot : commercial
pilot : cfi
|Experience||flight time last 90 days : 15|
flight time total : 325
flight time type : 10
|Function||instruction : trainee|
|Qualification||pilot : student|
|Experience||flight time total : 200|
|Anomaly||other anomaly other|
|Independent Detector||other flight crewa|
|Resolutory Action||none taken : detected after the fact|
|Air Traffic Incident||other|
Student pilot came in seeking instruction in his own airplane. I had just started that job as CFI the day before, it was my first job out of an aeronautical university. I had zero hours of instruction given. We went out and got in the airplane to leave. It was an old cherokee 140. It had no toe brakes on the right side of the cockpit. The student, however, had been flying for many yrs and had logged over 200 hours. I decided, without considering far 91.109, that it would be safe to go on the flight. He did a normal takeoff, some 4 fundamentals, constant altitude turns, slow flight, stalls, and we then returned to srb for a normal landing. He was a safe pilot. This was my first flight on which I gave instruction. We went back inside the FBO and I debriefed him and signed his logbook. However, looking back, I recall that I forgot to note the expiration date of my CFI certificate in his logbook. After he left, I started to wonder about the absence of toe brakes on the right side. So, I got out my far aim 95 and started searching. I realize now that this should have taken place before the flight. I found far 91.109 and began to wonder if 'fully functioning dual controls' includes toe brakes. I still do not know. Maybe this should be addressed. I plan on calling FSDO to find out. I asked my supervisor and he did not know either. Factors I believe contributed: lack of CFI experience, lack of safeguard policies at local FBO, eagerness to 'get my ticket wet,' having been on the job only 1 day, lack of specificity in 91.109, and a student who was unconcerned about FARS. Callback conversation with reporter revealed the following information: reporter ran into a friend who is employed with the FAA. He presented his question and was told that it would depend upon a person's interpretation of the 'fully functioning dual controls.' the friend of the pilot felt that if the hand brake was within comfortable reach, it qualified as a fully functioning control.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: AN INSTRUCTOR PLT GAVE INSTRUCTION TO A STUDENT PLT IN A PA28 WITHOUT TOE BRAKES ON THE R SIDE. IN HINDSIGHT, THE INSTRUCTOR WONDERED IF HE ACTUALLY HAD FULLY FUNCTIONING DUAL CTLS IN THE ACFT.
Narrative: STUDENT PLT CAME IN SEEKING INSTRUCTION IN HIS OWN AIRPLANE. I HAD JUST STARTED THAT JOB AS CFI THE DAY BEFORE, IT WAS MY FIRST JOB OUT OF AN AERONAUTICAL UNIVERSITY. I HAD ZERO HRS OF INSTRUCTION GIVEN. WE WENT OUT AND GOT IN THE AIRPLANE TO LEAVE. IT WAS AN OLD CHEROKEE 140. IT HAD NO TOE BRAKES ON THE R SIDE OF THE COCKPIT. THE STUDENT, HOWEVER, HAD BEEN FLYING FOR MANY YRS AND HAD LOGGED OVER 200 HRS. I DECIDED, WITHOUT CONSIDERING FAR 91.109, THAT IT WOULD BE SAFE TO GO ON THE FLT. HE DID A NORMAL TKOF, SOME 4 FUNDAMENTALS, CONSTANT ALT TURNS, SLOW FLT, STALLS, AND WE THEN RETURNED TO SRB FOR A NORMAL LNDG. HE WAS A SAFE PLT. THIS WAS MY FIRST FLT ON WHICH I GAVE INSTRUCTION. WE WENT BACK INSIDE THE FBO AND I DEBRIEFED HIM AND SIGNED HIS LOGBOOK. HOWEVER, LOOKING BACK, I RECALL THAT I FORGOT TO NOTE THE EXPIRATION DATE OF MY CFI CERTIFICATE IN HIS LOGBOOK. AFTER HE LEFT, I STARTED TO WONDER ABOUT THE ABSENCE OF TOE BRAKES ON THE R SIDE. SO, I GOT OUT MY FAR AIM 95 AND STARTED SEARCHING. I REALIZE NOW THAT THIS SHOULD HAVE TAKEN PLACE BEFORE THE FLT. I FOUND FAR 91.109 AND BEGAN TO WONDER IF 'FULLY FUNCTIONING DUAL CTLS' INCLUDES TOE BRAKES. I STILL DO NOT KNOW. MAYBE THIS SHOULD BE ADDRESSED. I PLAN ON CALLING FSDO TO FIND OUT. I ASKED MY SUPVR AND HE DID NOT KNOW EITHER. FACTORS I BELIEVE CONTRIBUTED: LACK OF CFI EXPERIENCE, LACK OF SAFEGUARD POLICIES AT LCL FBO, EAGERNESS TO 'GET MY TICKET WET,' HAVING BEEN ON THE JOB ONLY 1 DAY, LACK OF SPECIFICITY IN 91.109, AND A STUDENT WHO WAS UNCONCERNED ABOUT FARS. CALLBACK CONVERSATION WITH RPTR REVEALED THE FOLLOWING INFO: RPTR RAN INTO A FRIEND WHO IS EMPLOYED WITH THE FAA. HE PRESENTED HIS QUESTION AND WAS TOLD THAT IT WOULD DEPEND UPON A PERSON'S INTERP OF THE 'FULLY FUNCTIONING DUAL CTLS.' THE FRIEND OF THE PLT FELT THAT IF THE HAND BRAKE WAS WITHIN COMFORTABLE REACH, IT QUALIFIED AS A FULLY FUNCTIONING CTL.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.