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An over-long approach briefing caused an air carrier crew to start down late resulting in an altitude deviation crossing restr not met.
| Attributes | |
| ACN | 320491 |
| Time | |
| Date | 199511 |
| Day | Tue |
| Local Time Of Day | 1801 To 2400 |
| Place | |
| Locale Reference | atc facility : zid |
| State Reference | IN |
| Altitude | msl bound lower : 13000 msl bound upper : 13800 |
| Environment | |
| Flight Conditions | IMC |
| Light | Night |
| Aircraft 1 | |
| Controlling Facilities | artcc : zid |
| Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
| Make Model Name | B727 Undifferentiated or Other Model |
| Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
| Flight Phase | descent other |
| Route In Use | enroute : direct |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Person 1 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : captain observation : company check pilot oversight : pic |
| Qualification | pilot : flight engineer pilot : atp pilot : cfi |
| Experience | flight time last 90 days : 125 flight time total : 9000 flight time type : 4000 |
| ASRS Report | 320491 |
| Person 2 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : captain |
| Qualification | pilot : flight engineer pilot : cfi pilot : atp |
| Experience | flight time last 90 days : 50 flight time total : 8000 flight time type : 250 |
| ASRS Report | 320493 |
| Events | |
| Anomaly | altitude deviation : crossing restriction not met altitude deviation : undershoot non adherence : clearance other anomaly other |
| Independent Detector | other flight crewa |
| Resolutory Action | none taken : unable |
| Consequence | Other |
| Supplementary | |
| Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
| Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation |
Narrative:
I was giving IOE to a new captain upgrade. There was also a 'check engineer' giving IOE training to a new engineer. As we were proceeding direct to ZID VOR, ATC gave us a clearance to cross 30 mi out of rid at 13000 ft. We were at FL240 about 65 mi southwest. At the time we received the clearance, we were very busy trying to brief the approach at day. After finishing the briefing, we started down but realized it would be close. We crossed the 30 mi fix between 13500 ft and 13800 ft and leveled at 13000 ft by 28 mi. Contributing factors: fatigue, we had all been up at least 18 hours and I had been up with no sleep for 20 hours. Workload, with 2 students on board, performing the various functions takes longer. The brief for the approach and preparation takes longer. Because we were trying to accomplish a variety of pre-landing duties, I did not mentally calculate a descent point as soon as I received the clearance. Had I done this, I would have realized I needed to start down right away. WX, we were in icing conditions and moderate turbulence most of the flight. These factors add to mental stress. In the future, whenever I receive a clearance from ATC, it must take precedence over briefings. In other words, 'fly the airplane first.'
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: AN OVER-LONG APCH BRIEFING CAUSED AN ACR CREW TO START DOWN LATE RESULTING IN AN ALT DEV XING RESTR NOT MET.
Narrative: I WAS GIVING IOE TO A NEW CAPT UPGRADE. THERE WAS ALSO A 'CHK ENGINEER' GIVING IOE TRAINING TO A NEW ENGINEER. AS WE WERE PROCEEDING DIRECT TO ZID VOR, ATC GAVE US A CLRNC TO CROSS 30 MI OUT OF RID AT 13000 FT. WE WERE AT FL240 ABOUT 65 MI SW. AT THE TIME WE RECEIVED THE CLRNC, WE WERE VERY BUSY TRYING TO BRIEF THE APCH AT DAY. AFTER FINISHING THE BRIEFING, WE STARTED DOWN BUT REALIZED IT WOULD BE CLOSE. WE CROSSED THE 30 MI FIX BTWN 13500 FT AND 13800 FT AND LEVELED AT 13000 FT BY 28 MI. CONTRIBUTING FACTORS: FATIGUE, WE HAD ALL BEEN UP AT LEAST 18 HRS AND I HAD BEEN UP WITH NO SLEEP FOR 20 HRS. WORKLOAD, WITH 2 STUDENTS ON BOARD, PERFORMING THE VARIOUS FUNCTIONS TAKES LONGER. THE BRIEF FOR THE APCH AND PREPARATION TAKES LONGER. BECAUSE WE WERE TRYING TO ACCOMPLISH A VARIETY OF PRE-LNDG DUTIES, I DID NOT MENTALLY CALCULATE A DSCNT POINT AS SOON AS I RECEIVED THE CLRNC. HAD I DONE THIS, I WOULD HAVE REALIZED I NEEDED TO START DOWN RIGHT AWAY. WX, WE WERE IN ICING CONDITIONS AND MODERATE TURB MOST OF THE FLT. THESE FACTORS ADD TO MENTAL STRESS. IN THE FUTURE, WHENEVER I RECEIVE A CLRNC FROM ATC, IT MUST TAKE PRECEDENCE OVER BRIEFINGS. IN OTHER WORDS, 'FLY THE AIRPLANE FIRST.'
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.