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Dash 8 aircraft has difficulty with ATC vectors due to problem of drift-down and diverting from filed routing.
| Attributes | |
| ACN | 309764 |
| Time | |
| Date | 199507 |
| Day | Wed |
| Local Time Of Day | 0601 To 1200 |
| Place | |
| Locale Reference | atc facility : hbu |
| State Reference | CO |
| Altitude | msl bound lower : 23000 msl bound upper : 23000 |
| Environment | |
| Flight Conditions | VMC |
| Light | Daylight |
| Aircraft 1 | |
| Controlling Facilities | artcc : zdv tower : dfw |
| Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
| Make Model Name | Dash 8 Series Undifferentiated or Other Model |
| Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
| Flight Phase | cruise other |
| Route In Use | enroute : direct |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Person 1 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
| Qualification | pilot : atp |
| Experience | flight time last 90 days : 150 flight time total : 9000 flight time type : 150 |
| ASRS Report | 309764 |
| Person 2 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : first officer |
| Qualification | pilot : commercial pilot : instrument |
| Events | |
| Anomaly | non adherence : clearance |
| Independent Detector | other controllera other flight crewa |
| Resolutory Action | none taken : unable |
| Consequence | faa : reviewed incident with flight crew |
| Supplementary | |
| Primary Problem | Aircraft |
| Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation other |
| Situations | |
| ATC Facility | procedure or policy : unspecified |
Narrative:
We have drift-down procedures which involve staying on filed routing. Controller wanted us to go direct blue mesa VOR, we said we need to stay on our filed routing for drift-down. (Rockies 2 departure blue mesa transition) he seemed somewhat agitated and told us we needed to go either right or left -- our choice. We decided on left turn -- we were about 30 degrees off course. He eventually put us back on our filed routing. He handed us off to another sector and this sector told us to contact center when we land. ZDV controller's have been advised of our situation with drift-down. However, some are annoyed by our insistence to stay on course. Our situation is that we cannot deviate more than 5 mi off course to insure terrain separation. Callback conversation with reporter revealed the following information: reporter states the aircraft was a dash 8 and it does have poor single engine capability and is not a good aircraft for this high altitude operation. In fact the company is getting rid of these aircraft. Reporter was not the only pilot who had difficulty with ATC regarding the company policies. Company has reviewed procedures with ATC and has made the requirements more lenient so the flight crew can judge how far off course they feel is appropriate. MEA in this area is 16300 ft which is very high for this aircraft.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: DASH 8 ACFT HAS DIFFICULTY WITH ATC VECTORS DUE TO PROB OF DRIFT-DOWN AND DIVERTING FROM FILED ROUTING.
Narrative: WE HAVE DRIFT-DOWN PROCS WHICH INVOLVE STAYING ON FILED ROUTING. CTLR WANTED US TO GO DIRECT BLUE MESA VOR, WE SAID WE NEED TO STAY ON OUR FILED ROUTING FOR DRIFT-DOWN. (ROCKIES 2 DEP BLUE MESA TRANSITION) HE SEEMED SOMEWHAT AGITATED AND TOLD US WE NEEDED TO GO EITHER R OR L -- OUR CHOICE. WE DECIDED ON L TURN -- WE WERE ABOUT 30 DEGS OFF COURSE. HE EVENTUALLY PUT US BACK ON OUR FILED ROUTING. HE HANDED US OFF TO ANOTHER SECTOR AND THIS SECTOR TOLD US TO CONTACT CTR WHEN WE LAND. ZDV CTLR'S HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF OUR SIT WITH DRIFT-DOWN. HOWEVER, SOME ARE ANNOYED BY OUR INSISTENCE TO STAY ON COURSE. OUR SIT IS THAT WE CANNOT DEVIATE MORE THAN 5 MI OFF COURSE TO INSURE TERRAIN SEPARATION. CALLBACK CONVERSATION WITH RPTR REVEALED THE FOLLOWING INFO: RPTR STATES THE ACFT WAS A DASH 8 AND IT DOES HAVE POOR SINGLE ENG CAPABILITY AND IS NOT A GOOD ACFT FOR THIS HIGH ALT OP. IN FACT THE COMPANY IS GETTING RID OF THESE ACFT. RPTR WAS NOT THE ONLY PLT WHO HAD DIFFICULTY WITH ATC REGARDING THE COMPANY POLICIES. COMPANY HAS REVIEWED PROCS WITH ATC AND HAS MADE THE REQUIREMENTS MORE LENIENT SO THE FLC CAN JUDGE HOW FAR OFF COURSE THEY FEEL IS APPROPRIATE. MEA IN THIS AREA IS 16300 FT WHICH IS VERY HIGH FOR THIS ACFT.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.