Flight crew ATC interpretation of clear of runway. Possible runway incursions.

Attributes
ACN	271281
Time
Date	199405
Day	Sun
Local Time Of Day	1801 To 2400
Place
Locale Reference	atc facility : pit
State Reference	PA
Altitude	agl bound lower : 0 agl bound upper : 0
Environment
Flight Conditions	VMC
Light	Daylight
Aircraft 1
Operator	common carrier : air carrier
Make Model Name	Commercial Fixed Wing
Operating Under FAR Part	Part 121
Navigation In Use	Other Other
Flight Phase	ground : holding ground other : taxi
Flight Plan	IFR
Person 1
Affiliation	company : air carrier
Function	flight crew : captain oversight : pic
Qualification	pilot : atp
Experience	flight time last 90 days : 200 flight time total : 15000 flight time type : 4000
ASRS Report	271281
Person 2
Affiliation	company : air carrier
Function	flight crew : first officer
Qualification	pilot : commercial pilot : instrument
Events
Anomaly	incursion : runway non adherence : clearance
Independent Detector	other flight crewa
Resolutory Action	controller : issued new clearance
Consequence	faa : reviewed incident with flight crew
Supplementary
Primary Problem	Flight Crew Human Performance
Air Traffic Incident	other

Narrative:

Tower running traffic at 2 1/2 mi. Pushed by tower to exit. We did at N5. I turned off and got tail of aircraft over hold line. Ground told us to hold short (of taxiway) to allow company to pass. I told him we had to get clear of runway and in that position company would not be able to pass. Ground then told us to go first. When I talked to tower supervisor on phone he did understand why I wanted the entire aircraft to cross the hold short line to be clear of the runway. Supervisor said that ATC considered the airplane to be clear of runway if the tail was clear by 1 ft. (That was all he needed to roll traffic behind.) I am appalled that ATC finds it okay to roll behind turnoff aircraft with as little as 15 ft clearance between wingtips and tails plus the threat of jet blast to arriving/departing aircraft (150 ft runway, 737 has 120 ft wing span). In this and many other cases, controllers are failing to provide space to allow aircraft to roll clear. In many cases aircraft are instructed to hold short of parallel and other aircraft are rolled behind them. Tower supervisor also said 'we always do this' and if turning off, the hold short line guarantees tail clearance. What publication/regulation says that? A 737 is barely clear -- no way a 757 or 747 is clear.

Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: FLC ATC INTERP OF CLR OF RWY. POSSIBLE RWY INCURSIONS.

Narrative: TWR RUNNING TFC AT 2 1/2 MI. PUSHED BY TWR TO EXIT. WE DID AT N5. I TURNED OFF AND GOT TAIL OF ACFT OVER HOLD LINE. GND TOLD US TO HOLD SHORT (OF TXWY) TO ALLOW COMPANY TO PASS. I TOLD HIM WE HAD TO GET CLR OF RWY AND IN THAT POS COMPANY WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO PASS. GND THEN TOLD US TO GO FIRST. WHEN I TALKED TO TWR SUPVR ON PHONE HE DID UNDERSTAND WHY I WANTED THE ENTIRE ACFT TO CROSS THE HOLD SHORT LINE TO BE CLR OF THE RWY. SUPVR SAID THAT ATC CONSIDERED THE AIRPLANE TO BE CLR OF RWY IF THE TAIL WAS CLR BY 1 FT. (THAT WAS ALL HE NEEDED TO ROLL TFC BEHIND.) I AM APPALLED THAT ATC FINDS IT OKAY TO ROLL BEHIND TURNOFF ACFT WITH AS LITTLE AS 15 FT CLRNC BTWN WINGTIPS AND TAILS PLUS THE THREAT OF JET BLAST TO ARRIVING/DEPARTING ACFT (150 FT RWY, 737 HAS 120 FT WING SPAN). IN THIS AND MANY OTHER CASES, CTLRS ARE FAILING TO PROVIDE SPACE TO ALLOW ACFT TO ROLL CLR. IN MANY CASES ACFT ARE INSTRUCTED TO HOLD SHORT OF PARALLEL AND OTHER ACFT ARE ROLLED BEHIND THEM. TWR SUPVR ALSO SAID 'WE ALWAYS DO THIS' AND IF TURNING OFF, THE HOLD SHORT LINE GUARANTEES TAIL CLRNC. WHAT PUB/REG SAYS THAT? A 737 IS BARELY CLR -- NO WAY A 757 OR 747 IS CLR.

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.