An air carrier large transport crew failed to make its crossing restriction.

Attributes
ACN	252169
Time
Date	199309
Day	Wed
Local Time Of Day	0001 To 0600
Place
Locale Reference	atc facility : rfd
State Reference	IL
Altitude	msl bound lower : 24000 msl bound upper : 37000
Environment
Flight Conditions	VMC
Light	Night
Aircraft 1
Controlling Facilities	artcc : zau
Operator	common carrier : air carrier
Make Model Name	Large Transport, Low Wing, 2 Turbojet Eng
Navigation In Use	Other Other
Flight Phase	cruise other descent other
Flight Plan	IFR
Person 1
Affiliation	company : air carrier
Function	flight crew : first officer
Qualification	pilot : flight engineer pilot : cfi pilot : atp
Experience	flight time last 90 days : 180 flight time total : 4000 flight time type : 400
ASRS Report	252169
Person 2
Affiliation	company : air carrier
Function	flight crew : captain oversight : pic
Qualification	pilot : flight engineer pilot : atp
Experience	flight time last 90 days : 300 flight time total : 10500 flight time type : 200
ASRS Report	252170
Events
Anomaly	altitude deviation : crossing restriction not met altitude deviation : undershoot non adherence : clearance
Independent Detector	other controllera other flight crewa
Resolutory Action	none taken : anomaly accepted
Consequence	Other
Supplementary
Primary Problem	Flight Crew Human Performance
Air Traffic Incident	Pilot Deviation

Narrative:

FL370 lax to ord 90 NM west of krena intersection, ZAU instructed to cross 60 NM west of krena at FL240. Winds aloft were 270/90 KTS. Captain started down and was apparent that crossing restriction would not be made. I informed captain that we were 'high' (relating to krena crossing restriction). Captain then maximum performed aircraft to 4000 FPM plus. Still west of crossing point captain then asked ZAU to lift restriction. Request denied by ZAU. No safety of flight items to passenger, no TCASII TA/RA's, no call from center controller. Factors affecting this report: 1) early morning (red-eye flight), 2) confusion on crossing restriction (captain versus first officer), 90 KT tailwind, first officer not being firm enough when it was made obvious that crossing restriction would not be made. Supplemental information from acn 252170: tailwind component during descent was 90 KTS. The copilot told me that we were high to make the crossing restriction. When he told me this, I then realized that the crossing restriction was at 60 mi west of krena instead of krena. At no time during the descent did the controller ask if we were going to make the crossing restriction.

Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: AN ACR LGT CREW FAILED TO MAKE ITS XING RESTRICTION.

Narrative: FL370 LAX TO ORD 90 NM W OF KRENA INTXN, ZAU INSTRUCTED TO CROSS 60 NM W OF KRENA AT FL240. WINDS ALOFT WERE 270/90 KTS. CAPT STARTED DOWN AND WAS APPARENT THAT XING RESTRICTION WOULD NOT BE MADE. I INFORMED CAPT THAT WE WERE 'HIGH' (RELATING TO KRENA XING RESTRICTION). CAPT THEN MAX PERFORMED ACFT TO 4000 FPM PLUS. STILL W OF XING POINT CAPT THEN ASKED ZAU TO LIFT RESTRICTION. REQUEST DENIED BY ZAU. NO SAFETY OF FLT ITEMS TO PAX, NO TCASII TA/RA'S, NO CALL FROM CTR CTLR. FACTORS AFFECTING THIS RPT: 1) EARLY MORNING (RED-EYE FLT), 2) CONFUSION ON XING RESTRICTION (CAPT VERSUS FO), 90 KT TAILWIND, FO NOT BEING FIRM ENOUGH WHEN IT WAS MADE OBVIOUS THAT XING RESTRICTION WOULD NOT BE MADE. SUPPLEMENTAL INFO FROM ACN 252170: TAILWIND COMPONENT DURING DSCNT WAS 90 KTS. THE COPLT TOLD ME THAT WE WERE HIGH TO MAKE THE XING RESTRICTION. WHEN HE TOLD ME THIS, I THEN REALIZED THAT THE XING RESTRICTION WAS AT 60 MI W OF KRENA INSTEAD OF KRENA. AT NO TIME DURING THE DSCNT DID THE CTLR ASK IF WE WERE GOING TO MAKE THE XING RESTRICTION.

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.