Narrative:

I departed lgb on a VFR flight to hemet, ca, in an small aircraft. I climbed on an easterly heading and contacted coast approach control intending to climb easterly through the arsa. (I was on the el toro VOR 270 degree radial, proceeding eastbound.) coast approach acknowledged my call but told me to stand by for a beacon code. They did not tell me to remain clear of the arsa. I originally intended to level off at either 3500 ft or 5500 ft for the eastbound trip, however, there was a broken layer of clouds ahead of me that appeared to have bases at around 4000 ft and tops at 5500 ft or 6000 ft. Although coast had acknowledged my call, and I was thus legal to penetrate the arsa, I was reluctant to penetrate the arsa at the 3000-3500 ft altitude (that I would have had to fly to stay beneath the clouds) before I had been given a transponder code and been idented on radar. This was due to the heavy traffic usually at those altitudes going in and out of sna airport. Coast approach was very busy, and did not get right back to me. I continued my climb, which very shortly put me above the top of the arsa. As I recall, I was passing through about 5500 ft, approximately 12 DME west of the el toro VOR, when coast finally issued me a beacon code and radar idented me. The controller seemed to express concern as to my (high) altitude at that position, pointing out jet traffic inbound (for lax) on the sli VOR 148 degree radial. This traffic is normally descending between 10000 ft and 6000 ft in this area. I told the controller I had the traffic in sight. This jet traffic was in fact at least 5 mi away from me, to the south. He still seemed concerned, asking me if I was sure of my position. I had been, until he mentioned it a couple of times, and then I started wondering what he was getting at, and started wondering if I could possibly have clipped the 6000 ft floor of the lax TCA southeast of the sli VOR while I was in my climb. (I don't think I did, because passing through 6000 ft in my climb, as best I recall, I was probably around 10 or 12 DME out from the el toro VOR, which is definitely east of the lateral limit of the lax TCA in that area.) a few moments later, the controller mentioned 'no problem' and gave me off to another sector. Upon reflecting on this later in my armchair, with the lax TCA chart spread out in front of me, I got concerned that I had either 1) inadvertently clipped 6000 ft floor of the southeast part of the lax TCA in my climb (I'm 99.99 percent sure I didn't) or 2) that coast approach control was ticked off that I climbed through the arsa before they had issued me a code and idented me on radar (they had acknowledged my radio call, so 2-WAY communication had been established and the regulatory requirement met). More importantly, for the purposes of this ASRS report, my flight served to illustrate a potential airspace hazard in this area. Aircraft departing long beach airport VFR and climbing eastbound have only a narrow 'shelf' of airspace between the 6000 ft floor of the lax TCA and the 5400 ft top of the orange county/el toro arsa through which to climb, if they are unable to contact coast approach for arsa penetration. (Coast approach is often quite busy, so this can happen quite often, although it was not so in my case.) if there is a layer of clouds in the area at the 5000-6000 ft level (also quite a common meteorological phenomenon), the only other alternative for aircraft departing long beach and desiring to climb VFR eastbound or sebound would be to climb south and west of the seal beach VOR 135 degree radial which defines the southwest boundary of the lax TCA in that area (with a floor at 6000 ft MSL). Doing so would put these airplanes close to, and possibly in conflict with, jets descending between 10000 ft and 6000 ft inbound to sli VOR on the 148 degree radial, even though the 148 degree radial used routinely by these inbound jets is outside of the TCA. I thought the whole purpose of the TCA was to keep these jets within the TCA at altitudes such as this. The solution to this airspace problem would seem to be to re-route these inbound jets so that they routinely use, say, the sli 130 or 135 degree radial inbound at those altitudes, which would keep them within the 'wedge' of the TCA in that area, instead of outside of it. Or the TCA could be expanded a bit by widening that 'wedge' out to the sli 150 degree radial as a lateral limit. This would then keep jets descending on the 148 degree radial 'protected' in that area (within the TCA). The situation I've described is a bit of a 'catch-22,' and may not have a real good solution acceptable to the many different airspace users.

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Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: RPTR SUGGESTION OF AIRSPACE USE TO KEEP ACR ACFT MORE ALIGNED WITH TCA BOUNDARY.

Narrative: I DEPARTED LGB ON A VFR FLT TO HEMET, CA, IN AN SMA. I CLBED ON AN EASTERLY HDG AND CONTACTED COAST APCH CTL INTENDING TO CLB EASTERLY THROUGH THE ARSA. (I WAS ON THE EL TORO VOR 270 DEG RADIAL, PROCEEDING EBOUND.) COAST APCH ACKNOWLEDGED MY CALL BUT TOLD ME TO STAND BY FOR A BEACON CODE. THEY DID NOT TELL ME TO REMAIN CLR OF THE ARSA. I ORIGINALLY INTENDED TO LEVEL OFF AT EITHER 3500 FT OR 5500 FT FOR THE EBOUND TRIP, HOWEVER, THERE WAS A BROKEN LAYER OF CLOUDS AHEAD OF ME THAT APPEARED TO HAVE BASES AT AROUND 4000 FT AND TOPS AT 5500 FT OR 6000 FT. ALTHOUGH COAST HAD ACKNOWLEDGED MY CALL, AND I WAS THUS LEGAL TO PENETRATE THE ARSA, I WAS RELUCTANT TO PENETRATE THE ARSA AT THE 3000-3500 FT ALT (THAT I WOULD HAVE HAD TO FLY TO STAY BENEATH THE CLOUDS) BEFORE I HAD BEEN GIVEN A XPONDER CODE AND BEEN IDENTED ON RADAR. THIS WAS DUE TO THE HVY TFC USUALLY AT THOSE ALTS GOING IN AND OUT OF SNA ARPT. COAST APCH WAS VERY BUSY, AND DID NOT GET RIGHT BACK TO ME. I CONTINUED MY CLB, WHICH VERY SHORTLY PUT ME ABOVE THE TOP OF THE ARSA. AS I RECALL, I WAS PASSING THROUGH ABOUT 5500 FT, APPROX 12 DME W OF THE EL TORO VOR, WHEN COAST FINALLY ISSUED ME A BEACON CODE AND RADAR IDENTED ME. THE CTLR SEEMED TO EXPRESS CONCERN AS TO MY (HIGH) ALT AT THAT POS, POINTING OUT JET TFC INBOUND (FOR LAX) ON THE SLI VOR 148 DEG RADIAL. THIS TFC IS NORMALLY DSNDING BTWN 10000 FT AND 6000 FT IN THIS AREA. I TOLD THE CTLR I HAD THE TFC IN SIGHT. THIS JET TFC WAS IN FACT AT LEAST 5 MI AWAY FROM ME, TO THE S. HE STILL SEEMED CONCERNED, ASKING ME IF I WAS SURE OF MY POS. I HAD BEEN, UNTIL HE MENTIONED IT A COUPLE OF TIMES, AND THEN I STARTED WONDERING WHAT HE WAS GETTING AT, AND STARTED WONDERING IF I COULD POSSIBLY HAVE CLIPPED THE 6000 FT FLOOR OF THE LAX TCA SE OF THE SLI VOR WHILE I WAS IN MY CLB. (I DON'T THINK I DID, BECAUSE PASSING THROUGH 6000 FT IN MY CLB, AS BEST I RECALL, I WAS PROBABLY AROUND 10 OR 12 DME OUT FROM THE EL TORO VOR, WHICH IS DEFINITELY E OF THE LATERAL LIMIT OF THE LAX TCA IN THAT AREA.) A FEW MOMENTS LATER, THE CTLR MENTIONED 'NO PROB' AND GAVE ME OFF TO ANOTHER SECTOR. UPON REFLECTING ON THIS LATER IN MY ARMCHAIR, WITH THE LAX TCA CHART SPREAD OUT IN FRONT OF ME, I GOT CONCERNED THAT I HAD EITHER 1) INADVERTENTLY CLIPPED 6000 FT FLOOR OF THE SE PART OF THE LAX TCA IN MY CLB (I'M 99.99 PERCENT SURE I DIDN'T) OR 2) THAT COAST APCH CTL WAS TICKED OFF THAT I CLBED THROUGH THE ARSA BEFORE THEY HAD ISSUED ME A CODE AND IDENTED ME ON RADAR (THEY HAD ACKNOWLEDGED MY RADIO CALL, SO 2-WAY COM HAD BEEN ESTABLISHED AND THE REGULATORY REQUIREMENT MET). MORE IMPORTANTLY, FOR THE PURPOSES OF THIS ASRS RPT, MY FLT SERVED TO ILLUSTRATE A POTENTIAL AIRSPACE HAZARD IN THIS AREA. ACFT DEPARTING LONG BEACH ARPT VFR AND CLBING EBOUND HAVE ONLY A NARROW 'SHELF' OF AIRSPACE BTWN THE 6000 FT FLOOR OF THE LAX TCA AND THE 5400 FT TOP OF THE ORANGE COUNTY/EL TORO ARSA THROUGH WHICH TO CLB, IF THEY ARE UNABLE TO CONTACT COAST APCH FOR ARSA PENETRATION. (COAST APCH IS OFTEN QUITE BUSY, SO THIS CAN HAPPEN QUITE OFTEN, ALTHOUGH IT WAS NOT SO IN MY CASE.) IF THERE IS A LAYER OF CLOUDS IN THE AREA AT THE 5000-6000 FT LEVEL (ALSO QUITE A COMMON METEOROLOGICAL PHENOMENON), THE ONLY OTHER ALTERNATIVE FOR ACFT DEPARTING LONG BEACH AND DESIRING TO CLB VFR EBOUND OR SEBOUND WOULD BE TO CLB S AND W OF THE SEAL BEACH VOR 135 DEG RADIAL WHICH DEFINES THE SW BOUNDARY OF THE LAX TCA IN THAT AREA (WITH A FLOOR AT 6000 FT MSL). DOING SO WOULD PUT THESE AIRPLANES CLOSE TO, AND POSSIBLY IN CONFLICT WITH, JETS DSNDING BTWN 10000 FT AND 6000 FT INBOUND TO SLI VOR ON THE 148 DEG RADIAL, EVEN THOUGH THE 148 DEG RADIAL USED ROUTINELY BY THESE INBOUND JETS IS OUTSIDE OF THE TCA. I THOUGHT THE WHOLE PURPOSE OF THE TCA WAS TO KEEP THESE JETS WITHIN THE TCA AT ALTS SUCH AS THIS. THE SOLUTION TO THIS AIRSPACE PROB WOULD SEEM TO BE TO RE-RTE THESE INBOUND JETS SO THAT THEY ROUTINELY USE, SAY, THE SLI 130 OR 135 DEG RADIAL INBOUND AT THOSE ALTS, WHICH WOULD KEEP THEM WITHIN THE 'WEDGE' OF THE TCA IN THAT AREA, INSTEAD OF OUTSIDE OF IT. OR THE TCA COULD BE EXPANDED A BIT BY WIDENING THAT 'WEDGE' OUT TO THE SLI 150 DEG RADIAL AS A LATERAL LIMIT. THIS WOULD THEN KEEP JETS DSNDING ON THE 148 DEG RADIAL 'PROTECTED' IN THAT AREA (WITHIN THE TCA). THE SIT I'VE DESCRIBED IS A BIT OF A 'CATCH-22,' AND MAY NOT HAVE A REAL GOOD SOLUTION ACCEPTABLE TO THE MANY DIFFERENT AIRSPACE USERS.

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.