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An air carrier medium large transport thought that a question of aircraft capability was a clearance to descend.
| Attributes | |
| ACN | 224422 |
| Time | |
| Date | 199210 |
| Day | Sat |
| Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
| Place | |
| Locale Reference | atc facility : atr airport : dca |
| State Reference | DE |
| Altitude | msl bound lower : 15000 msl bound upper : 16000 |
| Environment | |
| Flight Conditions | VMC |
| Light | Daylight |
| Aircraft 1 | |
| Controlling Facilities | artcc : zdc |
| Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
| Make Model Name | Medium Large Transport, Low Wing, 2 Turbojet Eng |
| Navigation In Use | Other Other |
| Flight Phase | descent other |
| Route In Use | arrival other |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Aircraft 2 | |
| Operator | other |
| Make Model Name | Fighter |
| Navigation In Use | Other |
| Flight Phase | cruise other |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Person 1 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
| Qualification | pilot : atp pilot : flight engineer |
| Experience | flight time last 90 days : 105 flight time total : 7600 flight time type : 105 |
| ASRS Report | 224422 |
| Person 2 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : single pilot |
| Qualification | pilot : atp |
| Experience | flight time last 90 days : 180 flight time total : 5700 flight time type : 600 |
| ASRS Report | 224742 |
| Events | |
| Anomaly | altitude deviation : excursion from assigned altitude non adherence : clearance other anomaly other |
| Independent Detector | other controllera |
| Resolutory Action | controller : issued new clearance |
| Consequence | Other |
| Miss Distance | horizontal : 18000 vertical : 1000 |
| Supplementary | |
| Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
| Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation |
Narrative:
On descent into dca (from bos), ZDC asked if we could cross ATR at 14000 ft. We said, 'yes.' we were at FL180 and descending to 16000 ft, our last assigned altitude. Also, we were 20 DME from ATR -- we told the controller that we could cross at 14000 with no problem, and that the first officer read back to the controller that we would cross ATR at 14000 ft. (We couldn't remember if he cleared us or not). We read back that we would be crossing ATR at 14000 ft with non additional response from the controller. At 15000 ft and descending (approximately 10 DME from ATR), the controller asked us where we were going, what altitude. We told 14000 ft. He said level off at 15000 ft. There was traffic at 14000 (a flight of 3 fgts). When he asked us why we were descending to 14000, we said we had been cleared (at least thought) to cross ATR at 14000 ft. He (controller) didn't press the issue and the flight continued without further incident. Supplemental information from acn 224742: we responded by saying that we had read back a clearance to maintain 14000 by ATR. I will never assume a question to be taken as a new clearance. I would also expect a controller to be very careful when asking a question that conflicts with a clearance.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: AN ACR MLG THOUGHT THAT A QUESTION OF ACFT CAPABILITY WAS A CLRNC TO DSND.
Narrative: ON DSCNT INTO DCA (FROM BOS), ZDC ASKED IF WE COULD CROSS ATR AT 14000 FT. WE SAID, 'YES.' WE WERE AT FL180 AND DSNDING TO 16000 FT, OUR LAST ASSIGNED ALT. ALSO, WE WERE 20 DME FROM ATR -- WE TOLD THE CTLR THAT WE COULD CROSS AT 14000 WITH NO PROBLEM, AND THAT THE FO READ BACK TO THE CTLR THAT WE WOULD CROSS ATR AT 14000 FT. (WE COULDN'T REMEMBER IF HE CLRED US OR NOT). WE READ BACK THAT WE WOULD BE XING ATR AT 14000 FT WITH NON ADDITIONAL RESPONSE FROM THE CTLR. AT 15000 FT AND DSNDING (APPROX 10 DME FROM ATR), THE CTLR ASKED US WHERE WE WERE GOING, WHAT ALT. WE TOLD 14000 FT. HE SAID LEVEL OFF AT 15000 FT. THERE WAS TFC AT 14000 (A FLT OF 3 FGTS). WHEN HE ASKED US WHY WE WERE DSNDING TO 14000, WE SAID WE HAD BEEN CLRED (AT LEAST THOUGHT) TO CROSS ATR AT 14000 FT. HE (CTLR) DIDN'T PRESS THE ISSUE AND THE FLT CONTINUED WITHOUT FURTHER INCIDENT. SUPPLEMENTAL INFO FROM ACN 224742: WE RESPONDED BY SAYING THAT WE HAD READ BACK A CLRNC TO MAINTAIN 14000 BY ATR. I WILL NEVER ASSUME A QUESTION TO BE TAKEN AS A NEW CLRNC. I WOULD ALSO EXPECT A CTLR TO BE VERY CAREFUL WHEN ASKING A QUESTION THAT CONFLICTS WITH A CLRNC.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.