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Commuter aircraft cleared to turn inside medium large transport for parallel runway. TCASII RA, close proximity.
| Attributes | |
| ACN | 200791 |
| Time | |
| Date | 199202 |
| Day | Sun |
| Local Time Of Day | 0601 To 1200 |
| Place | |
| Locale Reference | airport : lax |
| State Reference | CA |
| Altitude | msl bound lower : 2000 msl bound upper : 2000 |
| Environment | |
| Flight Conditions | VMC |
| Light | Daylight |
| Aircraft 1 | |
| Controlling Facilities | tracon : lax |
| Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
| Make Model Name | Medium Large Transport, Low Wing, 2 Turbojet Eng |
| Navigation In Use | Other Other |
| Flight Phase | descent : approach |
| Route In Use | arrival : profile descent |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Aircraft 2 | |
| Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
| Make Model Name | Light Transport, Low Wing, 2 Turbojet Eng |
| Flight Phase | descent : approach |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Person 1 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
| Qualification | pilot : atp pilot : commercial pilot : instrument |
| Experience | flight time last 90 days : 170 flight time total : 17000 flight time type : 205 |
| ASRS Report | 200791 |
| Person 2 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : first officer |
| Qualification | pilot : commercial pilot : instrument pilot : atp |
| Events | |
| Anomaly | conflict : airborne less severe other anomaly other |
| Independent Detector | other flight crewa |
| Resolutory Action | none taken : unable other |
| Consequence | Other |
| Miss Distance | horizontal : 250 vertical : 100 |
| Supplementary | |
| Primary Problem | Ambiguous |
| Air Traffic Incident | other |
Narrative:
Approaching lax, from the north, on the fim 6 profile, we were advised by approach control to initiate base turn as soon as practical after passing smo, and that an light transport would follow us to 25L. During base, right turn, we were advised the light transport would turn inside us for visual to 25R. When we rolled wings level on final for 25L, we received a TCASII TA, followed by a TCASII RA calling for a climb. As we were about to initiate the climb to avoid the unknown traffic, we observed the light transport at 1 O'clock, 100 ft below and about 250 ft to our right. Visual contact was then maintained until both aircraft touched down on 25L and 25R respectively. A contributing factor to the proximity of the 2 aircraft was the north crosswind, which caused the light transport to overshoot final for 25R. Also, both aircraft being in a turn at the same time made visual contact difficult. I believe a hazardous situation was unnecessarily created, as this was not a busy arrival period. We only heard 2 other aircraft arriving at this time. It was not necessary to turn traffic so close together. One comment on TCASII. Frequently we are lulled into treating RA's in runway proximity as 'nuisance' alerts. Had we not seen the traffic when we did, the outcome of this event could have been quite different.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: COMMUTER ACFT CLRED TO TURN INSIDE MLG FOR PARALLEL RWY. TCASII RA, CLOSE PROX.
Narrative: APCHING LAX, FROM THE N, ON THE FIM 6 PROFILE, WE WERE ADVISED BY APCH CTL TO INITIATE BASE TURN AS SOON AS PRACTICAL AFTER PASSING SMO, AND THAT AN LTT WOULD FOLLOW US TO 25L. DURING BASE, R TURN, WE WERE ADVISED THE LTT WOULD TURN INSIDE US FOR VISUAL TO 25R. WHEN WE ROLLED WINGS LEVEL ON FINAL FOR 25L, WE RECEIVED A TCASII TA, FOLLOWED BY A TCASII RA CALLING FOR A CLB. AS WE WERE ABOUT TO INITIATE THE CLB TO AVOID THE UNKNOWN TFC, WE OBSERVED THE LTT AT 1 O'CLOCK, 100 FT BELOW AND ABOUT 250 FT TO OUR R. VISUAL CONTACT WAS THEN MAINTAINED UNTIL BOTH ACFT TOUCHED DOWN ON 25L AND 25R RESPECTIVELY. A CONTRIBUTING FACTOR TO THE PROX OF THE 2 ACFT WAS THE N XWIND, WHICH CAUSED THE LTT TO OVERSHOOT FINAL FOR 25R. ALSO, BOTH ACFT BEING IN A TURN AT THE SAME TIME MADE VISUAL CONTACT DIFFICULT. I BELIEVE A HAZARDOUS SITUATION WAS UNNECESSARILY CREATED, AS THIS WAS NOT A BUSY ARR PERIOD. WE ONLY HEARD 2 OTHER ACFT ARRIVING AT THIS TIME. IT WAS NOT NECESSARY TO TURN TFC SO CLOSE TOGETHER. ONE COMMENT ON TCASII. FREQUENTLY WE ARE LULLED INTO TREATING RA'S IN RWY PROX AS 'NUISANCE' ALERTS. HAD WE NOT SEEN THE TFC WHEN WE DID, THE OUTCOME OF THIS EVENT COULD HAVE BEEN QUITE DIFFERENT.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.