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Flight crew of medium large transport in holding pattern 10 mi legs had RA on TCASII but held altitude when traffic was sighted. ARTCC controller moved the traffic at same altitude.
| Attributes | |
| ACN | 195712 |
| Time | |
| Date | 199111 |
| Day | Fri |
| Local Time Of Day | 1801 To 2400 |
| Place | |
| Locale Reference | atc facility : ard airport : lga |
| State Reference | PA |
| Altitude | msl bound lower : 15000 msl bound upper : 15000 |
| Environment | |
| Flight Conditions | VMC |
| Light | Night |
| Aircraft 1 | |
| Controlling Facilities | artcc : zny |
| Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
| Make Model Name | Medium Large Transport, Low Wing, 2 Turbojet Eng |
| Navigation In Use | Other Other |
| Flight Phase | other |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Person 1 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : first officer |
| Qualification | pilot : atp pilot : commercial pilot : instrument |
| Experience | flight time last 90 days : 195 flight time total : 6000 flight time type : 3500 |
| ASRS Report | 195712 |
| Person 2 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
| Qualification | pilot : instrument pilot : atp pilot : commercial |
| Experience | flight time last 90 days : 195 flight time total : 8000 flight time type : 3000 |
| ASRS Report | 195713 |
| Events | |
| Anomaly | non adherence : far non adherence : published procedure non adherence : required legal separation other anomaly other |
| Independent Detector | aircraft equipment other aircraft equipment : unspecified other flight crewa |
| Resolutory Action | none taken : anomaly accepted |
| Consequence | Other |
| Miss Distance | horizontal : 15000 vertical : 0 |
| Supplementary | |
| Primary Problem | ATC Human Performance |
| Air Traffic Incident | Operational Error |
Narrative:
While en route to lga given several holds. Then given en route to stefe intersection to hold. While still en route we were given a descent to FL190 and to hurry through FL200. Before reaching FL190 we were given, and acknowledged, a clearance to 15000 ft. We also asked and received 10 mi legs in the hold. After about 3 turns in the pattern inbound to the hold fix we received a TA on the TCASII. We located the traffic on the screen and then got visual contact. We then got an RA on the traffic. It was an XXX which passed 2-2 1/2 mi to our right at the same altitude. Then the XXX said that they had also received an RA. The center gave them a vector off course. Shortly afterward the center changed controllers. The new controller asked our altitude and we told her 15000 ft. Later while outbound in the hold 9 mi from the hold fix we were starting our inbound turn the controller started questioning our position and implied we were not in the holding pattern protected area. We informed her of our 10 mi legs and our position. I still don't understand how the conflict came about but will be more alert while in holding patterns in the future.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: FLC OF MLG IN HOLDING PATTERN 10 MI LEGS HAD RA ON TCASII BUT HELD ALT WHEN TFC WAS SIGHTED. ARTCC CTLR MOVED THE TFC AT SAME ALT.
Narrative: WHILE ENRTE TO LGA GIVEN SEVERAL HOLDS. THEN GIVEN ENRTE TO STEFE INTXN TO HOLD. WHILE STILL ENRTE WE WERE GIVEN A DSCNT TO FL190 AND TO HURRY THROUGH FL200. BEFORE REACHING FL190 WE WERE GIVEN, AND ACKNOWLEDGED, A CLRNC TO 15000 FT. WE ALSO ASKED AND RECEIVED 10 MI LEGS IN THE HOLD. AFTER ABOUT 3 TURNS IN THE PATTERN INBOUND TO THE HOLD FIX WE RECEIVED A TA ON THE TCASII. WE LOCATED THE TFC ON THE SCREEN AND THEN GOT VISUAL CONTACT. WE THEN GOT AN RA ON THE TFC. IT WAS AN XXX WHICH PASSED 2-2 1/2 MI TO OUR R AT THE SAME ALT. THEN THE XXX SAID THAT THEY HAD ALSO RECEIVED AN RA. THE CENTER GAVE THEM A VECTOR OFF COURSE. SHORTLY AFTERWARD THE CENTER CHANGED CTLRS. THE NEW CTLR ASKED OUR ALT AND WE TOLD HER 15000 FT. LATER WHILE OUTBOUND IN THE HOLD 9 MI FROM THE HOLD FIX WE WERE STARTING OUR INBOUND TURN THE CTLR STARTED QUESTIONING OUR POS AND IMPLIED WE WERE NOT IN THE HOLDING PATTERN PROTECTED AREA. WE INFORMED HER OF OUR 10 MI LEGS AND OUR POS. I STILL DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW THE CONFLICT CAME ABOUT BUT WILL BE MORE ALERT WHILE IN HOLDING PATTERNS IN THE FUTURE.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.