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37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
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An apparent heading track deviation occurs during WX avoidance maneuvers in thunderstorm activity.
| Attributes | |
| ACN | 187975 |
| Time | |
| Date | 199109 |
| Day | Mon |
| Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
| Place | |
| Locale Reference | atc facility : den |
| State Reference | CO |
| Altitude | msl bound lower : 13000 msl bound upper : 15000 |
| Environment | |
| Flight Conditions | IMC |
| Light | Daylight |
| Aircraft 1 | |
| Controlling Facilities | tracon : den |
| Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
| Make Model Name | Medium Large Transport, Low Wing, 2 Turbojet Eng |
| Navigation In Use | Other Other |
| Flight Phase | cruise other cruise other descent other |
| Route In Use | arrival other arrival star : star enroute airway : den |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Person 1 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : first officer |
| Qualification | pilot : atp |
| Experience | flight time last 90 days : 200 flight time total : 2500 flight time type : 200 |
| ASRS Report | 187975 |
| Person 2 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
| Qualification | pilot : atp |
| Events | |
| Anomaly | conflict : airborne less severe inflight encounter : weather non adherence : clearance other spatial deviation |
| Independent Detector | other controllera |
| Resolutory Action | controller : issued new clearance other |
| Consequence | faa : reviewed incident with flight crew |
| Supplementary | |
| Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
| Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation other |
| Situations | |
| ATC Facility | procedure or policy : unspecified |
Narrative:
While descending to 13000 ft MSL on the profile descent into denver, captain coordination a deviation left of course to avoid a level III WX cell. Denver advised us to let them know when we could turn back to course, as there was conflicting traffic climbing out on departure. While passing approximately 14500 denver instructed us to turn 30 degree right for traffic, and shortly followed with a heading of 180 and rejoin the arrival. This turned us back into the eastern edge of the cell. There was no chance to coordination any other action due to the proximity of the departure traffic and so we complied with the instructions even though judgement dictated avoiding the WX we were painting on our radar. After leveling at 13000 ft the controller stated we had deviated 7 mi while our navigation showed approximately 8 degree at 35 DME (about 4 mi). The captain responded by saying 'ok', meaning we understand and have complied with his instructions to turn and rejoin the arrival. The controller immediately responded, in a frustrated voice that 'it was not ok!' our part of the problem was using the term 'couple of mi' in the deviation request and the controller interpreted that to mean no more than 2 mi. Denver's part of the problem was the controller's attitude and the fact that no attempt was made to alter the course of the departing traffic to allow for WX conditions. No altitude deviations occurred nor were separation requirements violated so far as we know.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: AN APPARENT HDG TRACK DEV OCCURS DURING WX AVOIDANCE MANEUVERS IN TSTM ACTIVITY.
Narrative: WHILE DSNDING TO 13000 FT MSL ON THE PROFILE DSCNT INTO DENVER, CAPT COORD A DEV L OF COURSE TO AVOID A LEVEL III WX CELL. DENVER ADVISED US TO LET THEM KNOW WHEN WE COULD TURN BACK TO COURSE, AS THERE WAS CONFLICTING TFC CLBING OUT ON DEP. WHILE PASSING APPROX 14500 DENVER INSTRUCTED US TO TURN 30 DEG R FOR TFC, AND SHORTLY FOLLOWED WITH A HDG OF 180 AND REJOIN THE ARR. THIS TURNED US BACK INTO THE EASTERN EDGE OF THE CELL. THERE WAS NO CHANCE TO COORD ANY OTHER ACTION DUE TO THE PROX OF THE DEP TFC AND SO WE COMPLIED WITH THE INSTRUCTIONS EVEN THOUGH JUDGEMENT DICTATED AVOIDING THE WX WE WERE PAINTING ON OUR RADAR. AFTER LEVELING AT 13000 FT THE CTLR STATED WE HAD DEVIATED 7 MI WHILE OUR NAV SHOWED APPROX 8 DEG AT 35 DME (ABOUT 4 MI). THE CAPT RESPONDED BY SAYING 'OK', MEANING WE UNDERSTAND AND HAVE COMPLIED WITH HIS INSTRUCTIONS TO TURN AND REJOIN THE ARR. THE CTLR IMMEDIATELY RESPONDED, IN A FRUSTRATED VOICE THAT 'IT WAS NOT OK!' OUR PART OF THE PROBLEM WAS USING THE TERM 'COUPLE OF MI' IN THE DEV REQUEST AND THE CTLR INTERPRETED THAT TO MEAN NO MORE THAN 2 MI. DENVER'S PART OF THE PROBLEM WAS THE CTLR'S ATTITUDE AND THE FACT THAT NO ATTEMPT WAS MADE TO ALTER THE COURSE OF THE DEPARTING TFC TO ALLOW FOR WX CONDITIONS. NO ALT DEVS OCCURRED NOR WERE SEPARATION REQUIREMENTS VIOLATED SO FAR AS WE KNOW.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.