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37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
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| Attributes | |
| ACN | 187518 |
| Time | |
| Date | 199108 |
| Day | Thu |
| Local Time Of Day | 1801 To 2400 |
| Place | |
| Locale Reference | airport : cmh |
| State Reference | OH |
| Altitude | msl bound lower : 4000 msl bound upper : 4000 |
| Environment | |
| Flight Conditions | VMC |
| Light | Night |
| Aircraft 1 | |
| Controlling Facilities | tracon : cmh |
| Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
| Make Model Name | Large Transport, Low Wing, 3 Turbojet Eng |
| Flight Phase | cruise other descent : approach |
| Route In Use | enroute : on vectors |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Aircraft 2 | |
| Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
| Make Model Name | Medium Large Transport, Low Wing, 2 Turbojet Eng |
| Flight Phase | cruise other descent : approach |
| Route In Use | enroute : on vectors |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Person 1 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
| Qualification | pilot : atp |
| Experience | flight time last 90 days : 65 flight time total : 17000 flight time type : 65 |
| ASRS Report | 187518 |
| Person 2 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : first officer |
| Qualification | pilot : commercial pilot : instrument |
| Events | |
| Anomaly | conflict : airborne less severe non adherence : required legal separation other anomaly other |
| Independent Detector | aircraft equipment other aircraft equipment : unspecified |
| Resolutory Action | flight crew : took evasive action other |
| Consequence | faa : reviewed incident with flight crew |
| Miss Distance | horizontal : 12000 vertical : 0 |
| Supplementary | |
| Primary Problem | ATC Human Performance |
| Air Traffic Incident | Operational Error Intra Facility Coordination Failure |
Narrative:
While on radar vectors for an ILS approach at cmh (runway 28) we had an RA on the TCASII which we followed. The situation was as follows: on a heading of 360 degree assigned at 4000 MSL (level) we were issued a heading of 300 degree to intercept the ILS. At that time we saw the landing lights of another aircraft at about 11 to 11:30 position and they appeared to be closing. We asked approach control who the traffic was. They replied that it was air carrier Y following us. At that moment the TCASII gave us a TA alert. The traffic was at the same altitude as us at 11:30 position and closing. The TCASII then changed from a TA to an RA within seconds. The TCASII instructed us to climb which we did and at that time cmh instructed air carrier Y to turn right immediately and also instructed us to do the same. Both aircraft complied. I feel this incident could have been avoided if approach control had issued us a TA before we asked. Time was wasted on communication. At this point we were closing too fast. I called approach control after we landed on the telephone. They explained that we were 2 1/2 - 3 mi apart (same altitude, opposite direction) when we were issued turn instructions. (The TCASII had already issued an RA alert by that time.) I don't like the idea of 2 aircraft being put on a possible collision course, same altitude in a small area such as the approach area. That leaves too much to chance. A radio or radar failure or any other distraction could cause a major conflict.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: LTSS BTWN 2 ACR ACFT. TCASII ALERT. OPERROR. EVASIVE ACTION.
Narrative: WHILE ON RADAR VECTORS FOR AN ILS APCH AT CMH (RWY 28) WE HAD AN RA ON THE TCASII WHICH WE FOLLOWED. THE SITUATION WAS AS FOLLOWS: ON A HDG OF 360 DEG ASSIGNED AT 4000 MSL (LEVEL) WE WERE ISSUED A HDG OF 300 DEG TO INTERCEPT THE ILS. AT THAT TIME WE SAW THE LNDG LIGHTS OF ANOTHER ACFT AT ABOUT 11 TO 11:30 POS AND THEY APPEARED TO BE CLOSING. WE ASKED APCH CTL WHO THE TFC WAS. THEY REPLIED THAT IT WAS ACR Y FOLLOWING US. AT THAT MOMENT THE TCASII GAVE US A TA ALERT. THE TFC WAS AT THE SAME ALT AS US AT 11:30 POS AND CLOSING. THE TCASII THEN CHANGED FROM A TA TO AN RA WITHIN SECONDS. THE TCASII INSTRUCTED US TO CLB WHICH WE DID AND AT THAT TIME CMH INSTRUCTED ACR Y TO TURN R IMMEDIATELY AND ALSO INSTRUCTED US TO DO THE SAME. BOTH ACFT COMPLIED. I FEEL THIS INCIDENT COULD HAVE BEEN AVOIDED IF APCH CTL HAD ISSUED US A TA BEFORE WE ASKED. TIME WAS WASTED ON COM. AT THIS POINT WE WERE CLOSING TOO FAST. I CALLED APCH CTL AFTER WE LANDED ON THE TELEPHONE. THEY EXPLAINED THAT WE WERE 2 1/2 - 3 MI APART (SAME ALT, OPPOSITE DIRECTION) WHEN WE WERE ISSUED TURN INSTRUCTIONS. (THE TCASII HAD ALREADY ISSUED AN RA ALERT BY THAT TIME.) I DON'T LIKE THE IDEA OF 2 ACFT BEING PUT ON A POSSIBLE COLLISION COURSE, SAME ALT IN A SMALL AREA SUCH AS THE APCH AREA. THAT LEAVES TOO MUCH TO CHANCE. A RADIO OR RADAR FAILURE OR ANY OTHER DISTR COULD CAUSE A MAJOR CONFLICT.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.