 |
37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
A potential conflict less than standard separation situation had a delayed resolution as the altitude deviation altitude excursion aircraft flight crew has a discussion with the departure controller.
| Attributes | |
| ACN | 167546 |
| Time | |
| Date | 199101 |
| Day | Fri |
| Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
| Place | |
| Locale Reference | airport : ewr |
| State Reference | NJ |
| Altitude | msl bound lower : 6000 msl bound upper : 6000 |
| Environment | |
| Flight Conditions | VMC |
| Light | Daylight |
| Aircraft 1 | |
| Controlling Facilities | tracon : n90 |
| Operator | general aviation : instructional |
| Make Model Name | Light Transport, Low Wing, 2 Turboprop Eng |
| Flight Phase | cruise other cruise other |
| Route In Use | enroute : on vectors enroute airway : n90 |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Aircraft 2 | |
| Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
| Make Model Name | Medium Large Transport, Low Wing, 2 Turbojet Eng |
| Navigation In Use | Other Other |
| Flight Phase | climbout : intermediate altitude |
| Route In Use | enroute : on vectors |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Person 1 | |
| Affiliation | Other |
| Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
| Qualification | pilot : atp pilot : cfi |
| Experience | flight time last 90 days : 150 flight time total : 3500 flight time type : 800 |
| ASRS Report | 167546 |
| Person 2 | |
| Affiliation | Other |
| Function | flight crew : first officer |
| Qualification | pilot : commercial pilot : instrument |
| Events | |
| Anomaly | altitude deviation : overshoot conflict : airborne less severe non adherence : clearance non adherence : required legal separation |
| Independent Detector | other controllera |
| Resolutory Action | controller : issued new clearance flight crew : exited adverse environment other |
| Consequence | faa : reviewed incident with flight crew |
| Miss Distance | horizontal : 3000 vertical : 800 |
| Supplementary | |
| Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
| Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation |
Narrative:
On 01/fri/91, at approximately pm:05 we departed on an IFR flight plan from teterboro, nj, for west palm beach, fl. After contacting my departure, we were given instructions to turn to a heading of 270 degrees and climb and maintain 6000'. We proceeded to do so, and during the climb, the controller pointed out traffic, an air carrier medium large transport climbing to 4000'. We reported the aircraft in sight as we leveled at 6000'. The copilot remarked that the medium large transport appeared higher than 4000'. It was just after that the controller asked us to expedite our climb to 10000' due to the medium large transport which was incorrectly climbing through 4000'. We climbed to 10000' as instructed maintaining constant visibility sep with the medium large transport. The medium large transport subsequently had us in sight and made a slight turn to go behind us. The medium large transport got closer than under normal circumstances however, visibility sep was maintained by both aircraft. The conversation that followed between the medium large transport and the controller revealed that the medium large transport's pilot thought the controller said 12000' instead of 4000'. Both the air carrier pilot and the controller spent time discussing altitude assignments/readbacks while we were still trying to rectify the situation. I do not feel there was ever a safety hazard however, I do think this could have been handled a little better. First, I feel that the controller and the air carrier pilots should have spent more time correcting the situation rather than determining who made the mistake. I think that today's environment creates an atmosphere that causes people to protect themselves from violations rather than promote aviation safety. Hopefully, NASA's reporting system is a way of helping promote a better environment. Secondly, in the future I will use more discretion in accepting an instruction from a controller. When the controller issued us the climb out of 6000' to 10000', the medium large transport was already through 4000' and getting closer to 6000'. The medium large transport can climb faster than we can and it may have been better to stay at 6000' or even descend to 5000' however, ny, airspace is complex and the controller may not have had this option available to him.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: A POTENTIAL CONFLICT LESS THAN STANDARD SEPARATION SITUATION HAD A DELAYED RESOLUTION AS THE ALT DEVIATION ALT EXCURSION ACFT FLT CREW HAS A DISCUSSION WITH THE DEP CTLR.
Narrative: ON 01/FRI/91, AT APPROX PM:05 WE DEPARTED ON AN IFR FLT PLAN FROM TETERBORO, NJ, FOR W PALM BEACH, FL. AFTER CONTACTING MY DEP, WE WERE GIVEN INSTRUCTIONS TO TURN TO A HDG OF 270 DEGS AND CLB AND MAINTAIN 6000'. WE PROCEEDED TO DO SO, AND DURING THE CLB, THE CTLR POINTED OUT TFC, AN ACR MLG CLBING TO 4000'. WE RPTED THE ACFT IN SIGHT AS WE LEVELED AT 6000'. THE COPLT REMARKED THAT THE MLG APPEARED HIGHER THAN 4000'. IT WAS JUST AFTER THAT THE CTLR ASKED US TO EXPEDITE OUR CLB TO 10000' DUE TO THE MLG WHICH WAS INCORRECTLY CLBING THROUGH 4000'. WE CLBED TO 10000' AS INSTRUCTED MAINTAINING CONSTANT VIS SEP WITH THE MLG. THE MLG SUBSEQUENTLY HAD US IN SIGHT AND MADE A SLIGHT TURN TO GO BEHIND US. THE MLG GOT CLOSER THAN UNDER NORMAL CIRCUMSTANCES HOWEVER, VIS SEP WAS MAINTAINED BY BOTH ACFT. THE CONVERSATION THAT FOLLOWED BTWN THE MLG AND THE CTLR REVEALED THAT THE MLG'S PLT THOUGHT THE CTLR SAID 12000' INSTEAD OF 4000'. BOTH THE ACR PLT AND THE CTLR SPENT TIME DISCUSSING ALT ASSIGNMENTS/READBACKS WHILE WE WERE STILL TRYING TO RECTIFY THE SITUATION. I DO NOT FEEL THERE WAS EVER A SAFETY HAZARD HOWEVER, I DO THINK THIS COULD HAVE BEEN HANDLED A LITTLE BETTER. FIRST, I FEEL THAT THE CTLR AND THE ACR PLTS SHOULD HAVE SPENT MORE TIME CORRECTING THE SITUATION RATHER THAN DETERMINING WHO MADE THE MISTAKE. I THINK THAT TODAY'S ENVIRONMENT CREATES AN ATMOSPHERE THAT CAUSES PEOPLE TO PROTECT THEMSELVES FROM VIOLATIONS RATHER THAN PROMOTE AVIATION SAFETY. HOPEFULLY, NASA'S RPTING SYS IS A WAY OF HELPING PROMOTE A BETTER ENVIRONMENT. SECONDLY, IN THE FUTURE I WILL USE MORE DISCRETION IN ACCEPTING AN INSTRUCTION FROM A CTLR. WHEN THE CTLR ISSUED US THE CLB OUT OF 6000' TO 10000', THE MLG WAS ALREADY THROUGH 4000' AND GETTING CLOSER TO 6000'. THE MLG CAN CLB FASTER THAN WE CAN AND IT MAY HAVE BEEN BETTER TO STAY AT 6000' OR EVEN DSND TO 5000' HOWEVER, NY, AIRSPACE IS COMPLEX AND THE CTLR MAY NOT HAVE HAD THIS OPTION AVAILABLE TO HIM.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.