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37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
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| Attributes | |
| ACN | 163673 |
| Time | |
| Date | 199011 |
| Day | Thu |
| Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
| Place | |
| Locale Reference | airport : lax |
| State Reference | CA |
| Altitude | msl bound lower : 4000 msl bound upper : 4000 |
| Environment | |
| Flight Conditions | VMC |
| Light | Daylight |
| Aircraft 1 | |
| Controlling Facilities | tracon : lax |
| Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
| Make Model Name | Widebody, Low Wing, 4 Turbojet Eng |
| Navigation In Use | Other |
| Flight Phase | descent other |
| Route In Use | approach : straight in arrival other |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Aircraft 2 | |
| Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
| Make Model Name | Widebody, Low Wing, 3 Turbojet Eng |
| Navigation In Use | Other |
| Flight Phase | cruise other |
| Route In Use | arrival other enroute : on vectors |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Person 1 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
| Qualification | pilot : atp |
| Experience | flight time last 90 days : 25 flight time total : 5500 |
| ASRS Report | 163673 |
| Person 2 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : first officer |
| Qualification | pilot : commercial pilot : instrument |
| Supplementary | |
| Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
| Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation |
Narrative:
Widebody transport X captain, I was cleared for ILS runway 25L approach out of 5000'. Approximately 15 mi out I noticed a widebody transport Y below and to the right on a 90 degree course relative to our heading in a right turn (see diagram reverse side). Widebody transport Y's turn carried him across our flight path and approximately 800' below us. Momentarily I lost sight of widebody transport Y under our nose applied thrust and leveled aircraft . Widebody transport Y reappeared to the left in a right turn that now was taking him back across our flight path. I asked lax approach about traffic. We were told to maintain 3500'. Widebody transport Y then turned back left again across our flight path heading. I was now clrd to land and given a 140 KT restriction. I was very high and asked to side step to runway 25R. A very steep descent resulted in a normal landing. No further incident. After landing, I called the ATC supervisor who told me that 'widebody transport Y' was given a clearance to turn right heading 240 degree to intercept the runway 24 localizer, cleared for approach. Just then, a second widebody transport Y acknowledged the transmission meant for widebody transport Y. In the resultant confusion widebody transport Y held his heading and xed both locs. Before being turned back to correct and then back south again for another approach. Visibility approximately 5 mi. Recommendations. Better 'hearback' by widebody transport Y's flight crew. Widebody transport Y and Y possible unfamiliar with area. Should know that nontransgression area between runway exists. Possible 'backside of the clock' or widebody transport Y and Y crew's crew rest? ATC more timely 'catch' of widebody transport Y's ATC deviation.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: LESS THAN STANDARD SEPARATION OCCURRED BETWEEN WDB X AND WDB Y WHEN WDB Y DID TAKE A NEW ASSIGNED HEADING.
Narrative: WDB X CAPT, I WAS CLRED FOR ILS RWY 25L APCH OUT OF 5000'. APPROX 15 MI OUT I NOTICED A WDB Y BELOW AND TO THE R ON A 90 DEG COURSE RELATIVE TO OUR HDG IN A R TURN (SEE DIAGRAM REVERSE SIDE). WDB Y'S TURN CARRIED HIM ACROSS OUR FLT PATH AND APPROX 800' BELOW US. MOMENTARILY I LOST SIGHT OF WDB Y UNDER OUR NOSE APPLIED THRUST AND LEVELED ACFT . WDB Y REAPPEARED TO THE L IN A R TURN THAT NOW WAS TAKING HIM BACK ACROSS OUR FLT PATH. I ASKED LAX APCH ABOUT TFC. WE WERE TOLD TO MAINTAIN 3500'. WDB Y THEN TURNED BACK L AGAIN ACROSS OUR FLT PATH HDG. I WAS NOW CLRD TO LAND AND GIVEN A 140 KT RESTRICTION. I WAS VERY HIGH AND ASKED TO SIDE STEP TO RWY 25R. A VERY STEEP DSNT RESULTED IN A NORMAL LNDG. NO FURTHER INCIDENT. AFTER LNDG, I CALLED THE ATC SUPVR WHO TOLD ME THAT 'WDB Y' WAS GIVEN A CLRNC TO TURN R HDG 240 DEG TO INTERCEPT THE RWY 24 LOC, CLRED FOR APCH. JUST THEN, A SEC WDB Y ACKNOWLEDGED THE XMISSION MEANT FOR WDB Y. IN THE RESULTANT CONFUSION WDB Y HELD HIS HDG AND XED BOTH LOCS. BEFORE BEING TURNED BACK TO CORRECT AND THEN BACK S AGAIN FOR ANOTHER APCH. VISIBILITY APPROX 5 MI. RECOMMENDATIONS. BETTER 'HEARBACK' BY WDB Y'S FLC. WDB Y AND Y POSSIBLE UNFAMILIAR WITH AREA. SHOULD KNOW THAT NONTRANSGRESSION AREA BTWN RWY EXISTS. POSSIBLE 'BACKSIDE OF THE CLOCK' OR WDB Y AND Y CREW'S CREW REST? ATC MORE TIMELY 'CATCH' OF WDB Y'S ATC DEV.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.