Departure controller and medium large transport flight crew dispute WX and vectors at gso.

Attributes
ACN	160726
Time
Date	199010
Day	Mon
Local Time Of Day	0601 To 1200
Place
Locale Reference	airport : gso
State Reference	NC
Altitude	msl bound lower : 9000 msl bound upper : 10000
Environment
Flight Conditions	Mixed
Light	Daylight
Aircraft 1
Controlling Facilities	tracon : gso
Operator	common carrier : air carrier
Make Model Name	Medium Large Transport, Low Wing, 2 Turbojet Eng
Navigation In Use	Other Other
Flight Phase	climbout : intermediate altitude
Route In Use	enroute : on vectors
Flight Plan	IFR
Person 1
Affiliation	company : air carrier
Function	flight crew : first officer
Qualification	pilot : flight engineer pilot : commercial pilot : atp pilot : instrument
Experience	flight time last 90 days : 100 flight time total : 6000 flight time type : 1000
ASRS Report	160726
Person 2
Affiliation	company : air carrier
Function	flight crew : captain oversight : pic
Qualification	pilot : atp
Events
Anomaly	inflight encounter : weather non adherence : clearance other anomaly other other spatial deviation
Independent Detector	other controllera other flight crewa
Resolutory Action	controller : issued new clearance
Consequence	Other
Supplementary
Primary Problem	Flight Crew Human Performance
Air Traffic Incident	other

Narrative:

During climb out we were painting yellow, red and purple on the scope to our right covering about 70 degree arc. Departure issued climb, maintain 10000', turn right 350 degrees (dead center on the cell). We advised unable due to WX. He gave another heading (still in north direction, toward cell). We refused gain and repeated cell location. He said he was painting the WX, and would we do a right 180 degree turn (his tone was exasperated). At this point he had lost credibility with us and we told him no, that our maximum heading change was 10 degrees right. Long silence, then, 'maintain 9000', advised when you can turn!' our operations manual mandates 25 mi sep from cell activity. The controller obviously had traffic sep/flew sep or some other problem and obviously did not appreciate our unwillingness to penetrate. If 180 degrees turn after takeoff had been issued by tower, we probably could have complied due to initial low speed (we were cleaned up with vmin of 240+ KTS). Too many of us for too many yrs have made do to help the system out. That's our fault. We have held an overworked, understaffed system together to get the job done! Hence we are constantly pressured into marginal visibility approachs, visibility sep, high divers, high speed approachs and minimal sep. Enough!! Fix the system or slow it down; we are an accident waiting for disaster.

Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: DEP CTLR AND MLG FLT CREW DISPUTE WX AND VECTORS AT GSO.

Narrative: DURING CLBOUT WE WERE PAINTING YELLOW, RED AND PURPLE ON THE SCOPE TO OUR RIGHT COVERING ABOUT 70 DEG ARC. DEP ISSUED CLB, MAINTAIN 10000', TURN RIGHT 350 DEGS (DEAD CENTER ON THE CELL). WE ADVISED UNABLE DUE TO WX. HE GAVE ANOTHER HDG (STILL IN N DIRECTION, TOWARD CELL). WE REFUSED GAIN AND REPEATED CELL LOCATION. HE SAID HE WAS PAINTING THE WX, AND WOULD WE DO A RIGHT 180 DEG TURN (HIS TONE WAS EXASPERATED). AT THIS POINT HE HAD LOST CREDIBILITY WITH US AND WE TOLD HIM NO, THAT OUR MAX HDG CHANGE WAS 10 DEGS RIGHT. LONG SILENCE, THEN, 'MAINTAIN 9000', ADVISED WHEN YOU CAN TURN!' OUR OPS MANUAL MANDATES 25 MI SEP FROM CELL ACTIVITY. THE CTLR OBVIOUSLY HAD TFC SEP/FLEW SEP OR SOME OTHER PROB AND OBVIOUSLY DID NOT APPRECIATE OUR UNWILLINGNESS TO PENETRATE. IF 180 DEGS TURN AFTER TKOF HAD BEEN ISSUED BY TWR, WE PROBABLY COULD HAVE COMPLIED DUE TO INITIAL LOW SPD (WE WERE CLEANED UP WITH VMIN OF 240+ KTS). TOO MANY OF US FOR TOO MANY YRS HAVE MADE DO TO HELP THE SYS OUT. THAT'S OUR FAULT. WE HAVE HELD AN OVERWORKED, UNDERSTAFFED SYS TOGETHER TO GET THE JOB DONE! HENCE WE ARE CONSTANTLY PRESSURED INTO MARGINAL VIS APCHS, VIS SEP, HIGH DIVERS, HIGH SPD APCHS AND MINIMAL SEP. ENOUGH!! FIX THE SYS OR SLOW IT DOWN; WE ARE AN ACCIDENT WAITING FOR DISASTER.

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.