|37000 Feet||Browse and search NASA's
Aviation Safety Reporting System
|Local Time Of Day||1801 To 2400|
|Locale Reference||atc facility : smo|
|Altitude||agl bound lower : 0|
agl bound upper : 9000
|Controlling Facilities||tracon : lax|
|Operator||common carrier : air carrier|
|Make Model Name||Widebody, Low Wing, 3 Turbojet Eng|
|Navigation In Use||Other |
|Flight Phase||descent : approach|
|Route In Use||approach : visual|
|Affiliation||company : air carrier|
|Function||flight crew : first officer|
|Qualification||pilot : flight engineer|
pilot : atp
|Experience||flight time last 90 days : 200|
flight time total : 5000
flight time type : 3000
|Affiliation||company : air carrier|
|Function||flight crew : captain|
oversight : pic
|Qualification||pilot : atp|
|Anomaly||inflight encounter other|
other anomaly other
|Independent Detector||other flight crewa|
|Resolutory Action||none taken : anomaly accepted|
|Air Traffic Incident||other|
The crew began a lax-hnl-lax turn in the morning. The captain reported he'd slept 3 hours that evening, as he was based in sfo. The captain and first officer initially were at disagreements about normal cockpit duties. Landing in hnl uneventful. The crew was getting along better. The captain's leg hnl-lax. We were given sadde 4 arrival, 250 KTS at bayst. Cleared direct smo VOR and given descent clearance to 7000'. No traffic reported. Between 9000-800' the aircraft experienced a loud crashing sound and simultaneously a sharp jolt/shudder from the left. The captain (PF) exclaimed, 'we had a midair!' he asked the F/east if the gauges were all right. There was no abnormal engine, hydraulic indications. I reported to approach control that we may have hit something. Approach asked for an explanation and I explained 'we had a violent shudder and loud crashing sound.' we were cleared stadium visibility 24L at lax. The captain had discontinued his descent and was level about 5000' 070 degree heading. He then contacted approach control and told them to disregard (the possible midair). Approach control asked for final fuel and souls onboard. I gave the souls onboard count of 364 to approach control while the captain again radioed to disregard. He seemed to think everything was all right, although he had not talked to any of the cabin staff for a report. The offer to have equipment standing by was turned down by the captain. I suggested that he was assuming a lot about the condition of the aircraft. That it didn't cost anything to be cautious and play it safe. He turned base and overshot the 24 (north) complex and tower gave directions to turn for 24L runway. This after the captain claimed he had the field visually. I assisted in directing him to an extended centerline 24L. We landed west/O further incident. The captain left the aircraft at the gate while F/east and I conducted a post-flight walk-around. Nothing unusual was noted. I directed maintenance for a further examination and wrote an inspection item for possible bird strike, cargo shift or midair damage. I called approach control and talked to duty supervisor about the events. No traffic in the area at the time, so they didn't feel it was a midair with another aircraft. My feeling is that when in doubt it is good practice to be conservative, safe and cautious and take all the help offered. With the recent cargo door and cabin roof accidents, anything is possible. The macho fighter pilot lone eagle 'I-don't-admit-I-need-assistance' attitude has not place in today's flying. Callback conversation with reporter revealed the following: reporter states that they now suspect a cargo shift. The widebody transport is not approved for palleted cargo,, but company loads engines aboard on pallets. No way to fasten to the floor. Re: conflict with captain, reporter feels captain's slow response and poor attitude is due to aging. Feels that 55 should be mandatory retirement. System is getting too complex for some people to adapt.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: WDB FLT CREW ON APCH EXPERIENCES LOUD CRASHING SOUND AND SHARP JOLT OF ACFT. FIRST BELIEVE A MIDAIR HAS OCCURRED, BUT NO CHANGES IN GAUGES OR FLT CHARACTERISTICS.
Narrative: THE CREW BEGAN A LAX-HNL-LAX TURN IN THE MORNING. THE CAPT RPTED HE'D SLEPT 3 HRS THAT EVENING, AS HE WAS BASED IN SFO. THE CAPT AND F/O INITIALLY WERE AT DISAGREEMENTS ABOUT NORMAL COCKPIT DUTIES. LNDG IN HNL UNEVENTFUL. THE CREW WAS GETTING ALONG BETTER. THE CAPT'S LEG HNL-LAX. WE WERE GIVEN SADDE 4 ARR, 250 KTS AT BAYST. CLRED DIRECT SMO VOR AND GIVEN DSNT CLRNC TO 7000'. NO TFC RPTED. BTWN 9000-800' THE ACFT EXPERIENCED A LOUD CRASHING SOUND AND SIMULTANEOUSLY A SHARP JOLT/SHUDDER FROM THE LEFT. THE CAPT (PF) EXCLAIMED, 'WE HAD A MIDAIR!' HE ASKED THE F/E IF THE GAUGES WERE ALL RIGHT. THERE WAS NO ABNORMAL ENG, HYD INDICATIONS. I RPTED TO APCH CTL THAT WE MAY HAVE HIT SOMETHING. APCH ASKED FOR AN EXPLANATION AND I EXPLAINED 'WE HAD A VIOLENT SHUDDER AND LOUD CRASHING SOUND.' WE WERE CLRED STADIUM VIS 24L AT LAX. THE CAPT HAD DISCONTINUED HIS DSNT AND WAS LEVEL ABOUT 5000' 070 DEG HDG. HE THEN CONTACTED APCH CTL AND TOLD THEM TO DISREGARD (THE POSSIBLE MIDAIR). APCH CTL ASKED FOR FINAL FUEL AND SOULS ONBOARD. I GAVE THE SOULS ONBOARD COUNT OF 364 TO APCH CTL WHILE THE CAPT AGAIN RADIOED TO DISREGARD. HE SEEMED TO THINK EVERYTHING WAS ALL RIGHT, ALTHOUGH HE HAD NOT TALKED TO ANY OF THE CABIN STAFF FOR A RPT. THE OFFER TO HAVE EQUIP STANDING BY WAS TURNED DOWN BY THE CAPT. I SUGGESTED THAT HE WAS ASSUMING A LOT ABOUT THE CONDITION OF THE ACFT. THAT IT DIDN'T COST ANYTHING TO BE CAUTIOUS AND PLAY IT SAFE. HE TURNED BASE AND OVERSHOT THE 24 (N) COMPLEX AND TWR GAVE DIRECTIONS TO TURN FOR 24L RWY. THIS AFTER THE CAPT CLAIMED HE HAD THE FIELD VISUALLY. I ASSISTED IN DIRECTING HIM TO AN EXTENDED CENTERLINE 24L. WE LANDED W/O FURTHER INCIDENT. THE CAPT LEFT THE ACFT AT THE GATE WHILE F/E AND I CONDUCTED A POST-FLT WALK-AROUND. NOTHING UNUSUAL WAS NOTED. I DIRECTED MAINT FOR A FURTHER EXAMINATION AND WROTE AN INSPECTION ITEM FOR POSSIBLE BIRD STRIKE, CARGO SHIFT OR MIDAIR DAMAGE. I CALLED APCH CTL AND TALKED TO DUTY SUPVR ABOUT THE EVENTS. NO TFC IN THE AREA AT THE TIME, SO THEY DIDN'T FEEL IT WAS A MIDAIR WITH ANOTHER ACFT. MY FEELING IS THAT WHEN IN DOUBT IT IS GOOD PRACTICE TO BE CONSERVATIVE, SAFE AND CAUTIOUS AND TAKE ALL THE HELP OFFERED. WITH THE RECENT CARGO DOOR AND CABIN ROOF ACCIDENTS, ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE. THE MACHO FIGHTER PLT LONE EAGLE 'I-DON'T-ADMIT-I-NEED-ASSISTANCE' ATTITUDE HAS NOT PLACE IN TODAY'S FLYING. CALLBACK CONVERSATION WITH RPTR REVEALED THE FOLLOWING: RPTR STATES THAT THEY NOW SUSPECT A CARGO SHIFT. THE WDB IS NOT APPROVED FOR PALLETED CARGO,, BUT COMPANY LOADS ENGS ABOARD ON PALLETS. NO WAY TO FASTEN TO THE FLOOR. RE: CONFLICT WITH CAPT, RPTR FEELS CAPT'S SLOW RESPONSE AND POOR ATTITUDE IS DUE TO AGING. FEELS THAT 55 SHOULD BE MANDATORY RETIREMENT. SYS IS GETTING TOO COMPLEX FOR SOME PEOPLE TO ADAPT.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.