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Small aircraft pilot trying to get his IFR clearance enters air traffic area.
| Attributes | |
| ACN | 145415 |
| Time | |
| Date | 199005 |
| Day | Wed |
| Local Time Of Day | 0601 To 1200 |
| Place | |
| Locale Reference | atc facility : sns |
| State Reference | CA |
| Altitude | msl bound lower : 3000 msl bound upper : 3000 |
| Environment | |
| Flight Conditions | VMC |
| Light | Daylight |
| Aircraft 1 | |
| Operator | general aviation : personal |
| Make Model Name | Small Aircraft, Low Wing, 1 Eng, Fixed Gear |
| Flight Phase | climbout : initial cruise other |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Person 1 | |
| Affiliation | Other |
| Function | flight crew : single pilot |
| Qualification | pilot : instrument pilot : private |
| Experience | flight time total : 900 |
| ASRS Report | 145415 |
| Person 2 | |
| Affiliation | government : faa |
| Function | controller : local |
| Qualification | controller : non radar |
| Events | |
| Anomaly | other anomaly other |
| Independent Detector | other controllera other flight crewa |
| Resolutory Action | none taken : anomaly accepted |
| Consequence | Other |
| Supplementary | |
| Primary Problem | Ambiguous |
| Air Traffic Incident | other |
Narrative:
IFR flight from monterey airport to reedley (near fresno). I filed an IFR flight plan 2 hours prior to takeoff for the above flight. Departure time was to be am local time. After starting engine I called monterey clearance delivery and was told I would get my clearance but 'taxi to the runway 10R.' while taxiing I was asked if I would take a VFR climb out. I said I would, but did this mean 'to IFR?' tower controller said 'no, VFR and pick up your clearance at sns with ZOA.' I asked if I had to be above 5000'. Controller said 'yes, but I can see toro park,' meaning that I would be in VFR conditions until picking up my clearance. I turned prior to takeoff and indeed could see blue sky above toro peak. Ceiling at airport was 2000-3000' (my estimate), but rising to the east. I took off and climbed out. As I proceeded toward sns in good VFR conditions monterey gave me clearance to switch frequencys. At toro park I realized I could not climb above 3000', as the cloud layer extended beyond sns. On this course I was going into sns airspace. I called sns tower and said, 'sna, I am on a flight plan out of monterey to the east and would like to enter your airspace and pick up an IFR clearance.' the sns tower operator seemed somewhat confused. I believe he thought that I wanted him to give me the clearance. Time passed and then another voice came on the air and said, 'where are you? Are you in my airspace?' by then I was about 3 mi from sns. I then explained that I wanted to call ZOA from over sns, as I understood I had been requested to do by monterey tower. Sns controller said, 'go ahead.' I believe that he thought I had virtually arrived in his airspace unannounced, whereas I had called him initially from outside his airspace. Also, I assumed that monterey departure had cleared me through there to pick up the rest of the routing from ZOA. Now it seems that because monterey's radar was OTS at the time, maybe monterey did not inform sns that I was on the way. There was on conflict with any other traffic. Visibility was excellent below the cloud. I came out under the cloud deck, climbed to 5500' and called ZOA. They gave me my clearance and I proceeded. I am concerned and somewhat embarrassed that sns tower may have recorded an intrusion into their airspace, which in my opinion was not the case.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: SMA PLT TRYING TO GET HIS IFR CLRNC ENTERS ATA.
Narrative: IFR FLT FROM MONTEREY ARPT TO REEDLEY (NEAR FRESNO). I FILED AN IFR FLT PLAN 2 HRS PRIOR TO TKOF FOR THE ABOVE FLT. DEP TIME WAS TO BE AM LCL TIME. AFTER STARTING ENG I CALLED MONTEREY CLRNC DELIVERY AND WAS TOLD I WOULD GET MY CLRNC BUT 'TAXI TO THE RWY 10R.' WHILE TAXIING I WAS ASKED IF I WOULD TAKE A VFR CLB OUT. I SAID I WOULD, BUT DID THIS MEAN 'TO IFR?' TWR CTLR SAID 'NO, VFR AND PICK UP YOUR CLRNC AT SNS WITH ZOA.' I ASKED IF I HAD TO BE ABOVE 5000'. CTLR SAID 'YES, BUT I CAN SEE TORO PARK,' MEANING THAT I WOULD BE IN VFR CONDITIONS UNTIL PICKING UP MY CLRNC. I TURNED PRIOR TO TKOF AND INDEED COULD SEE BLUE SKY ABOVE TORO PEAK. CEILING AT ARPT WAS 2000-3000' (MY ESTIMATE), BUT RISING TO THE E. I TOOK OFF AND CLBED OUT. AS I PROCEEDED TOWARD SNS IN GOOD VFR CONDITIONS MONTEREY GAVE ME CLRNC TO SWITCH FREQS. AT TORO PARK I REALIZED I COULD NOT CLB ABOVE 3000', AS THE CLOUD LAYER EXTENDED BEYOND SNS. ON THIS COURSE I WAS GOING INTO SNS AIRSPACE. I CALLED SNS TWR AND SAID, 'SNA, I AM ON A FLT PLAN OUT OF MONTEREY TO THE E AND WOULD LIKE TO ENTER YOUR AIRSPACE AND PICK UP AN IFR CLRNC.' THE SNS TWR OPERATOR SEEMED SOMEWHAT CONFUSED. I BELIEVE HE THOUGHT THAT I WANTED HIM TO GIVE ME THE CLRNC. TIME PASSED AND THEN ANOTHER VOICE CAME ON THE AIR AND SAID, 'WHERE ARE YOU? ARE YOU IN MY AIRSPACE?' BY THEN I WAS ABOUT 3 MI FROM SNS. I THEN EXPLAINED THAT I WANTED TO CALL ZOA FROM OVER SNS, AS I UNDERSTOOD I HAD BEEN REQUESTED TO DO BY MONTEREY TWR. SNS CTLR SAID, 'GO AHEAD.' I BELIEVE THAT HE THOUGHT I HAD VIRTUALLY ARRIVED IN HIS AIRSPACE UNANNOUNCED, WHEREAS I HAD CALLED HIM INITIALLY FROM OUTSIDE HIS AIRSPACE. ALSO, I ASSUMED THAT MONTEREY DEP HAD CLRED ME THROUGH THERE TO PICK UP THE REST OF THE ROUTING FROM ZOA. NOW IT SEEMS THAT BECAUSE MONTEREY'S RADAR WAS OTS AT THE TIME, MAYBE MONTEREY DID NOT INFORM SNS THAT I WAS ON THE WAY. THERE WAS ON CONFLICT WITH ANY OTHER TFC. VISIBILITY WAS EXCELLENT BELOW THE CLOUD. I CAME OUT UNDER THE CLOUD DECK, CLBED TO 5500' AND CALLED ZOA. THEY GAVE ME MY CLRNC AND I PROCEEDED. I AM CONCERNED AND SOMEWHAT EMBARRASSED THAT SNS TWR MAY HAVE RECORDED AN INTRUSION INTO THEIR AIRSPACE, WHICH IN MY OPINION WAS NOT THE CASE.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.