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Reporter questions minimum altitude permitted outside FAF when making a localizer runway 31 approach into lga.
| Attributes | |
| ACN | 112852 |
| Time | |
| Date | 198906 |
| Day | Sun |
| Local Time Of Day | 0601 To 1200 |
| Place | |
| Locale Reference | airport : lga |
| State Reference | NY |
| Altitude | msl bound lower : 1600 msl bound upper : 2000 |
| Environment | |
| Flight Conditions | Mixed |
| Light | Daylight |
| Aircraft 1 | |
| Controlling Facilities | tracon : n90 |
| Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
| Make Model Name | Widebody, Low Wing, 3 Turbojet Eng |
| Navigation In Use | Other |
| Flight Phase | descent : approach |
| Route In Use | enroute : on vectors |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Person 1 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
| Qualification | pilot : instrument pilot : flight engineer pilot : commercial pilot : atp pilot : cfi |
| Experience | flight time last 90 days : 84 flight time total : 17150 flight time type : 2125 |
| ASRS Report | 112852 |
| Person 2 | |
| Affiliation | government : faa |
| Function | controller : approach |
| Qualification | controller : radar |
| Events | |
| Anomaly | other anomaly other |
| Independent Detector | other flight crewa |
| Resolutory Action | other |
| Consequence | Other |
| Supplementary | |
| Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
| Air Traffic Incident | other |
| Situations | |
| ATC Facility | procedure or policy : unspecified |
Narrative:
The analyst working this report should be familiar with the air carrier accident, at iad involving a transition altitude. The type approach plate attached is a tap for pilots. The question is, what altitude can you descend to outside the fabry intersection? The quick answer is the last altitude assigned by ATC. Ny approach is using the following terminology when vectoring for this approach: 'maintain 2000 until established on the localizer, cleared for the localizer 31 approach.' I submit that the pilot will probably interpret that to be the authority to descend to 1600 when established on the localizer. The way to avoid the confusion factor is with a properly drawn approach plate. The lowest altitude authorized outside the fabry intersection should be shown in the profile. Maintaining 2000 to fabry is not the answer. This allows only 5 mi to descend 2000' which is an excessive descent profile. Runway 31 is less than 7000' long. It is not a good idea to be high, particularly in a wide body aircraft.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: REPORTER QUESTIONS MINIMUM ALT PERMITTED OUTSIDE FAF WHEN MAKING A LOCALIZER RWY 31 APCH INTO LGA.
Narrative: THE ANALYST WORKING THIS REPORT SHOULD BE FAMILIAR WITH THE ACR ACCIDENT, AT IAD INVOLVING A TRANSITION ALT. THE TYPE APCH PLATE ATTACHED IS A TAP FOR PLTS. THE QUESTION IS, WHAT ALT CAN YOU DSND TO OUTSIDE THE FABRY INTXN? THE QUICK ANSWER IS THE LAST ALT ASSIGNED BY ATC. NY APCH IS USING THE FOLLOWING TERMINOLOGY WHEN VECTORING FOR THIS APCH: 'MAINTAIN 2000 UNTIL ESTABLISHED ON THE LOC, CLRED FOR THE LOC 31 APCH.' I SUBMIT THAT THE PLT WILL PROBABLY INTERPRET THAT TO BE THE AUTHORITY TO DSND TO 1600 WHEN ESTABLISHED ON THE LOC. THE WAY TO AVOID THE CONFUSION FACTOR IS WITH A PROPERLY DRAWN APCH PLATE. THE LOWEST ALT AUTHORIZED OUTSIDE THE FABRY INTXN SHOULD BE SHOWN IN THE PROFILE. MAINTAINING 2000 TO FABRY IS NOT THE ANSWER. THIS ALLOWS ONLY 5 MI TO DSND 2000' WHICH IS AN EXCESSIVE DSCNT PROFILE. RWY 31 IS LESS THAN 7000' LONG. IT IS NOT A GOOD IDEA TO BE HIGH, PARTICULARLY IN A WIDE BODY ACFT.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of August 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.