|37000 Feet||Browse and search NASA's
Aviation Safety Reporting System
|Local Time Of Day||0601 To 1200|
|Locale Reference||atc facility : trm|
|Altitude||msl bound lower : 23000|
msl bound upper : 23800
|Controlling Facilities||artcc : zla|
artcc : zse
|Operator||general aviation : corporate|
|Make Model Name||Small Transport, Low Wing, 2 Turbojet Eng|
|Flight Phase||climbout : intermediate altitude|
|Route In Use||enroute : direct|
|Function||flight crew : captain|
oversight : pic
|Qualification||pilot : atp|
pilot : flight engineer
|Experience||flight time last 90 days : 70|
flight time total : 15000
flight time type : 100
|Function||flight crew : first officer|
|Qualification||pilot : atp|
|Anomaly||conflict : airborne less severe|
non adherence : required legal separation
other anomaly other
|Independent Detector||other controllera|
|Primary Problem||ATC Human Performance|
|Air Traffic Incident||Operational Error|
We were filed IFR large transport to las, routing was via trm-tnp, thence via radials to bld-las. After departing lgb we were given headings, then cleared direct to trm when able. Thence flight plan route, cleared to FL250. Approaching trm VOR we were climbing through 23500'. We began a left turn toward tnp as all cockpit indications were that we had entered the cone of silence over the trm VOR. Sometime into the turn ATC asked where we were going and that we were not cleared to do what we were doing. We were told to turn right to a heading of 120 degrees and that we had traffic at 12 O'clock at FL240. We were at approximately 23800'. I immediately turned at a 45 degree bank to a heading of 140 degrees and descended to approximately 23000'. Shortly after that turn we were instructed to turn left to heading of 350 degrees, and then direct to tnp flight plan route. At first I had thought I may have turned too soon, however all cockpit indications were that we were over trm VOR. The DME had also dropped off, which is not always the case. But this time it had, giving me another sign that we were over the VOR. Our return outbnd from las was over the trm VOR again and in looking at it visually there was no way possible we could have turned as soon as the controller advised. With this in mind it seems the controller had forgotten about us climbing to FL250 and with an inbound aircraft at FL240 we would have already been in conflict. It appears to me that we should have been leveled at FL230 until that inbound plan passed. If the indications in the cockpit were that we were over the VOR and had proceeded past the VOR we would also be in violation. I have been in commercial aviation for over 20 yrs--15 yrs with the air carrier and over 5 yrs in part 135 flying, mostly in jet aircraft.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: ATC CLEARED ACFT THROUGH OCCUPIED ALT.
Narrative: WE WERE FILED IFR LGT TO LAS, ROUTING WAS VIA TRM-TNP, THENCE VIA RADIALS TO BLD-LAS. AFTER DEPARTING LGB WE WERE GIVEN HDGS, THEN CLRED DIRECT TO TRM WHEN ABLE. THENCE FLT PLAN ROUTE, CLRED TO FL250. APCHING TRM VOR WE WERE CLBING THROUGH 23500'. WE BEGAN A LEFT TURN TOWARD TNP AS ALL COCKPIT INDICATIONS WERE THAT WE HAD ENTERED THE CONE OF SILENCE OVER THE TRM VOR. SOMETIME INTO THE TURN ATC ASKED WHERE WE WERE GOING AND THAT WE WERE NOT CLRED TO DO WHAT WE WERE DOING. WE WERE TOLD TO TURN RIGHT TO A HDG OF 120 DEGS AND THAT WE HAD TFC AT 12 O'CLOCK AT FL240. WE WERE AT APPROX 23800'. I IMMEDIATELY TURNED AT A 45 DEG BANK TO A HDG OF 140 DEGS AND DSNDED TO APPROX 23000'. SHORTLY AFTER THAT TURN WE WERE INSTRUCTED TO TURN LEFT TO HDG OF 350 DEGS, AND THEN DIRECT TO TNP FLT PLAN ROUTE. AT FIRST I HAD THOUGHT I MAY HAVE TURNED TOO SOON, HOWEVER ALL COCKPIT INDICATIONS WERE THAT WE WERE OVER TRM VOR. THE DME HAD ALSO DROPPED OFF, WHICH IS NOT ALWAYS THE CASE. BUT THIS TIME IT HAD, GIVING ME ANOTHER SIGN THAT WE WERE OVER THE VOR. OUR RETURN OUTBND FROM LAS WAS OVER THE TRM VOR AGAIN AND IN LOOKING AT IT VISUALLY THERE WAS NO WAY POSSIBLE WE COULD HAVE TURNED AS SOON AS THE CTLR ADVISED. WITH THIS IN MIND IT SEEMS THE CTLR HAD FORGOTTEN ABOUT US CLBING TO FL250 AND WITH AN INBND ACFT AT FL240 WE WOULD HAVE ALREADY BEEN IN CONFLICT. IT APPEARS TO ME THAT WE SHOULD HAVE BEEN LEVELED AT FL230 UNTIL THAT INBND PLAN PASSED. IF THE INDICATIONS IN THE COCKPIT WERE THAT WE WERE OVER THE VOR AND HAD PROCEEDED PAST THE VOR WE WOULD ALSO BE IN VIOLATION. I HAVE BEEN IN COMMERCIAL AVIATION FOR OVER 20 YRS--15 YRS WITH THE ACR AND OVER 5 YRS IN PART 135 FLYING, MOSTLY IN JET ACFT.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of August 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.