|37000 Feet||Browse and search NASA's
Aviation Safety Reporting System
|Local Time Of Day||0601 To 1200|
|Locale Reference||airport : las|
|Altitude||agl bound lower : 0|
agl bound upper : 0
|Operator||common carrier : air carrier|
|Make Model Name||Large Transport, Low Wing, 3 Turbojet Eng|
|Flight Phase||ground : preflight|
|Affiliation||company : air carrier|
|Function||flight crew : second officer|
|Qualification||pilot : instrument|
pilot : flight engineer
pilot : atp
pilot : cfi
|Experience||flight time last 90 days : 200|
flight time total : 5500
flight time type : 1700
|Affiliation||company : air carrier|
|Function||flight crew : captain|
oversight : pic
|Qualification||pilot : atp|
|Anomaly||non adherence : far|
|Independent Detector||other flight crewa|
other other : unspecified
|Resolutory Action||none taken : anomaly accepted|
|Primary Problem||Flight Crew Human Performance|
|Air Traffic Incident||other|
Upon arrival at flight operations in las (from an overnight) I was met by an FAA aviation safety inspector. He informed me that our crew would be given a line check en route to sfo. I was the only member of my crew in operations at that time and proceeded to show the aci the paperwork on our flight, including the flight plan, WX briefing sheet and other pertinent information. It was noted that we had one deferred item on our large transport and that item aroused aci's interest. We were being dispatched with a missing registration certificate. In lieu of the certificate we had a temporary authorization from company to conduct operations until a permanent certificate was obtained from the FAA. At company we don't carry a MEL and we are forced to rely upon our maintenance control to oversee our maintenance procedures. When aci saw our temporary registration certificate he informed me that it just would not do. He said he would be more than happy to go over to the FSDO and get the correct forms. He then proceeded to head toward his office and informed me that if we wanted to go to sfo west/O him, that it would be at our own risk. Since it was now only 25 mins prior to departure, I thought we would probably take a delay. Shortly after aci left the other members of my crew arrived and I relayed to them the entire story. I felt as though we ought to wait for aci and contact our maintenance people in sfo. My captain informed me that if it was a deferred item from our maintenance people, that it was legal to fly and ok to go to sfo. I asked if we should at least call our maintenance controller in sfo to clarify the situation and make absolutely certain that we were in the right. He again stated that we would not do that, and we were going to leave las on time. Needless to say, we left las west/O the aci. I really do not know for certain if that aircraft had the legal paperwork to fly. The item had been deferred for numerous days, so I assume that if we were illegal then we were not the only crew to do so. The real problem is the fact that we at company are not given an MEL to help determine what is legal to fly with and what is not. We are forced to rely on somebody else's interpretation of that document. This is not a lot of fun when it is your ticket that rides on the flight. This item has been complained about before to our flight management, however it falls on deaf ears. Another factor involved was the captain's lack of concern for the other crew member's thoughts. I felt we should contact our maintenance controller, but was turned down west/O even an explanation. It is at our airline that we should know for a prior accident that the CRM concept is vitally important.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: ACR LGT OPERATED WITH QUESTIONABLE REGISTRATION CERTIFICATE.
Narrative: UPON ARR AT FLT OPS IN LAS (FROM AN OVERNIGHT) I WAS MET BY AN FAA AVIATION SAFETY INSPECTOR. HE INFORMED ME THAT OUR CREW WOULD BE GIVEN A LINE CHK ENRTE TO SFO. I WAS THE ONLY MEMBER OF MY CREW IN OPS AT THAT TIME AND PROCEEDED TO SHOW THE ACI THE PAPERWORK ON OUR FLT, INCLUDING THE FLT PLAN, WX BRIEFING SHEET AND OTHER PERTINENT INFO. IT WAS NOTED THAT WE HAD ONE DEFERRED ITEM ON OUR LGT AND THAT ITEM AROUSED ACI'S INTEREST. WE WERE BEING DISPATCHED WITH A MISSING REGISTRATION CERTIFICATE. IN LIEU OF THE CERTIFICATE WE HAD A TEMPORARY AUTHORIZATION FROM COMPANY TO CONDUCT OPS UNTIL A PERMANENT CERTIFICATE WAS OBTAINED FROM THE FAA. AT COMPANY WE DON'T CARRY A MEL AND WE ARE FORCED TO RELY UPON OUR MAINT CTL TO OVERSEE OUR MAINT PROCS. WHEN ACI SAW OUR TEMPORARY REGISTRATION CERTIFICATE HE INFORMED ME THAT IT JUST WOULD NOT DO. HE SAID HE WOULD BE MORE THAN HAPPY TO GO OVER TO THE FSDO AND GET THE CORRECT FORMS. HE THEN PROCEEDED TO HEAD TOWARD HIS OFFICE AND INFORMED ME THAT IF WE WANTED TO GO TO SFO W/O HIM, THAT IT WOULD BE AT OUR OWN RISK. SINCE IT WAS NOW ONLY 25 MINS PRIOR TO DEP, I THOUGHT WE WOULD PROBABLY TAKE A DELAY. SHORTLY AFTER ACI LEFT THE OTHER MEMBERS OF MY CREW ARRIVED AND I RELAYED TO THEM THE ENTIRE STORY. I FELT AS THOUGH WE OUGHT TO WAIT FOR ACI AND CONTACT OUR MAINT PEOPLE IN SFO. MY CAPT INFORMED ME THAT IF IT WAS A DEFERRED ITEM FROM OUR MAINT PEOPLE, THAT IT WAS LEGAL TO FLY AND OK TO GO TO SFO. I ASKED IF WE SHOULD AT LEAST CALL OUR MAINT CTLR IN SFO TO CLARIFY THE SITUATION AND MAKE ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN THAT WE WERE IN THE RIGHT. HE AGAIN STATED THAT WE WOULD NOT DO THAT, AND WE WERE GOING TO LEAVE LAS ON TIME. NEEDLESS TO SAY, WE LEFT LAS W/O THE ACI. I REALLY DO NOT KNOW FOR CERTAIN IF THAT ACFT HAD THE LEGAL PAPERWORK TO FLY. THE ITEM HAD BEEN DEFERRED FOR NUMEROUS DAYS, SO I ASSUME THAT IF WE WERE ILLEGAL THEN WE WERE NOT THE ONLY CREW TO DO SO. THE REAL PROB IS THE FACT THAT WE AT COMPANY ARE NOT GIVEN AN MEL TO HELP DETERMINE WHAT IS LEGAL TO FLY WITH AND WHAT IS NOT. WE ARE FORCED TO RELY ON SOMEBODY ELSE'S INTERPRETATION OF THAT DOCUMENT. THIS IS NOT A LOT OF FUN WHEN IT IS YOUR TICKET THAT RIDES ON THE FLT. THIS ITEM HAS BEEN COMPLAINED ABOUT BEFORE TO OUR FLT MGMNT, HOWEVER IT FALLS ON DEAF EARS. ANOTHER FACTOR INVOLVED WAS THE CAPT'S LACK OF CONCERN FOR THE OTHER CREW MEMBER'S THOUGHTS. I FELT WE SHOULD CONTACT OUR MAINT CTLR, BUT WAS TURNED DOWN W/O EVEN AN EXPLANATION. IT IS AT OUR AIRLINE THAT WE SHOULD KNOW FOR A PRIOR ACCIDENT THAT THE CRM CONCEPT IS VITALLY IMPORTANT.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of August 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.