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Small transport unhappy with departure procedure used by controllers at lax, says gets too close to high terrain.
| Attributes | |
| ACN | 100663 |
| Time | |
| Date | 198812 |
| Day | Fri |
| Local Time Of Day | 1801 To 2400 |
| Place | |
| Locale Reference | airport : lax |
| State Reference | CA |
| Altitude | msl bound lower : 2000 msl bound upper : 4000 |
| Environment | |
| Flight Conditions | Mixed |
| Light | Night |
| Aircraft 1 | |
| Controlling Facilities | tracon : lax artcc : zdc |
| Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
| Make Model Name | Small Transport, Low Wing, 2 Turboprop Eng |
| Flight Phase | climbout : intermediate altitude |
| Route In Use | enroute : on vectors |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Person 1 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : first officer |
| Qualification | pilot : atp |
| Experience | flight time last 90 days : 60 flight time total : 6000 flight time type : 100 |
| ASRS Report | 100663 |
| Person 2 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
| Qualification | pilot : atp |
| Events | |
| Anomaly | other spatial deviation |
| Independent Detector | other controllera |
| Resolutory Action | controller : issued new clearance other |
| Consequence | Other |
| Supplementary | |
| Primary Problem | ATC Human Performance |
| Air Traffic Incident | other |
| Situations | |
| ATC Facility | procedure or policy : unspecified |
Narrative:
Frequently departure from lax via foxtrot 15 clearance is issued. Aircraft are held to 2000' expecting 4000' later. On 3 occasions in a 2 month period, we were held at 2000' too long and told to expedite climb by lax departure. This was to avoid hitting the 2824' mountain on the 280 degree right of lax omni at 19 DME. This is a repeatedly hazardous situation and should be correcting before a delayed communication, stuck microphone, or temporary radio problem results in an aircraft hitting that mountain. Callback conversation with reporter revealed the following: reporter indicated that the foxtrot 15 route is a canned departure designed for commuter aircraft and does not have a specific heading or radial to fly. Controllers assign a vector heading once radar contact is established and reporter feels that it takes them too close to high terrain. Third party callback confirmed that all departures are either radar vectored or a SID and that departure controllers must abide by the MVA while vectoring.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: SMT UNHAPPY WITH DEP PROC USED BY CTLRS AT LAX, SAYS GETS TOO CLOSE TO HIGH TERRAIN.
Narrative: FREQUENTLY DEP FROM LAX VIA FOXTROT 15 CLRNC IS ISSUED. ACFT ARE HELD TO 2000' EXPECTING 4000' LATER. ON 3 OCCASIONS IN A 2 MONTH PERIOD, WE WERE HELD AT 2000' TOO LONG AND TOLD TO EXPEDITE CLB BY LAX DEP. THIS WAS TO AVOID HITTING THE 2824' MOUNTAIN ON THE 280 DEG R OF LAX OMNI AT 19 DME. THIS IS A REPEATEDLY HAZARDOUS SITUATION AND SHOULD BE CORRECTING BEFORE A DELAYED COM, STUCK MIC, OR TEMPORARY RADIO PROB RESULTS IN AN ACFT HITTING THAT MOUNTAIN. CALLBACK CONVERSATION WITH RPTR REVEALED THE FOLLOWING: RPTR INDICATED THAT THE FOXTROT 15 ROUTE IS A CANNED DEP DESIGNED FOR COMMUTER ACFT AND DOES NOT HAVE A SPECIFIC HDG OR RADIAL TO FLY. CTLRS ASSIGN A VECTOR HDG ONCE RADAR CONTACT IS ESTABLISHED AND RPTR FEELS THAT IT TAKES THEM TOO CLOSE TO HIGH TERRAIN. THIRD PARTY CALLBACK CONFIRMED THAT ALL DEPS ARE EITHER RADAR VECTORED OR A SID AND THAT DEP CTLRS MUST ABIDE BY THE MVA WHILE VECTORING.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of August 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.